Why M$ doesn't want people to get COF early now obvious...

[Guest]

Seems a lot of people are having issues with COF... and posting those problems to forums (except flightsim!) that LOTS of people are reading. People that HAVEN'T bought COF yet. I wonder how many people may NOT buy COF on Tuesday after reading some of these threads... it's not just GeForce boards, it's ATI boards too. It's flickering, it's panels that don't work correctly, it's lots of things. Now I see why M$ didn't want stores to sell to customers early- they KNEW there would be lots of problems, and they didn't want those problems to come out until the MAXIMUM number of people had shelled out for the sim. Well, the cat's out of the bag now, as they say. It's all so much clearer now. The beta testing continues...Jonathan

[Tabs 2,790]

The ATI thing seems like it's a genuine bug, but panels not working? I think that's to be expected for a new version of the sim, and it's up to developers to patch their panels. The same exact thing happened with 2002. The hardcore group that posts on simming forums is actually a very small percentage of the people who buy FS, so I don't think this is the issue.Ryan

[John_Cillis 2,406]

I see a lock coming onto this thread faster than someone can say "troll".... Come on Jonathan! Were you around when FS2002 was released? People ran into problems, and considering there is no such thing as a consistent test bed, it's amazing FS2004/COF works as well as it does. And FS2002 works very well, having never been patched. Time and time again, issues with FS2002 were traced to the "babel" of systems out here in the "real world." Spyware...faulty RAM, outdated drivers, ........I was part of the testing team, and I'm proud to say we did a bang up job. We all have a variety of systems, and having said that, I haven't seen one issue crop up with gold on my end that wasn't system related. See my system specs.... I'm lucky I wasn't laughed out of the beta, but I stuck with it, and learned how to coach people with my type of system in how to set up FS2004 so they could enjoy it. As for panels not working correctly--Microsoft changed AFD structure to give us a better sim. In the process, that has caused issues with panels, as well as other subtle structure changes. It will be fixed, but it ain't a bug.... I'm sorry, but the whole tone of your post doesn't seem to point to any interest in helping simmers solve these issues. What has your experience been with FS2004? Maybe someone will offer some help in spite of this post...

[Geofa 108]

Exactly........and if I could add-I personally find this M$ term offensive. The flightsim team is made up of real people (read the headline in avsim two weeks ago about a baby being born) -talented, hard working, many who are pilots. They are professional ,polite (something we don't always see on these boards), and without a doubt seeking perfection-even though not attainable, and often not practical in a time/business sense.True-the company over them is Microsoft, and as a business the name of the game is to make money-nothing wrong with that. But there is certainly no big evil, mindless empire seeking to rip off the common man.On the contrary, a lot of genious, hard working types that love flight simming as much as all of us do-and try to put out and improve the best flight sim there is in a given amount of time-and yes-even make a living doing it! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest]

Don't worry, I'm going to buy it and be one of the post-29 July beta testers. My point is that the trend of releasing "beta-tested" software that needs beta testing continues. Yes, I know it's all-so-hard to make products these days with so many different computer set ups out there, from your P3/800 to others' P4/3.2G's, BUT! the fact remains that when a product is released to the public, it should WORK AS ADVERSTISE FOR ANYONE THAT PURCHASES IT. When the maker says "Ok, we're ready to take your money now", that means it SHOULD WORK AS ADVERTISED ON ANY SUPPORTED COMPUTER SYSTEM! How many times have YOU read in a forum thread "OMG I got this new thingamajig and worked flawlessly!!!1" How about never? How many threads here at AVSIM say "FS2004 is da bomb!" Lots from beta testers, but none from anyone who just got it. Hmm. Now, how many new threads say "My GeForce card doesn't work" or "Troubles with FS2004 and ATi 9700" or "I get flickers"? Lots. And there are going to be lots more. Why didn't beta testers catch this? I can't believe that not one beta tester had an ATi 9700! My guess is that beta testers were not allowed to say anything about any troubles they had, they were just allowed to post beautiful screen shots to make us drool.Jonathanp.s. Yeah, I know, I waived my rights to free speech when I signed on, lock away, whatever.

[Guest Philip Olson]

Troll! Well, the cat is out of the bag, isn't it? Sheez! Philip

[Geofa 108]

Considering you have such a strong opinion without even owning it yet-I think you shouldn't bother to buy it-why let reality influence your opinion?http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest wkzzo]

Geofa do you know if anyone with multiple monitors beta tested this. I have posted a thread about only being able to undock windows to another monitor in windowed mode only(read on another forum and confirmed by numerous people)a major step back from fs2002 .This to me is a major blow, having a 3 monitor system, and it will keep me from buying it till this is resolved. Is this what is refered to is advanced multi monitor support, I dont get it.

[Geofa 108]

No I don't. I have never multi monitered so wouldn't know. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest ssurjap]

I had no problems at all with my running of COF. I have a moderate systems (P4, 1.6GHz, 512 MB RAM, Geforce2 with 64MB onboard) and I'm using the default planes with the default panels.The only "unrealistic" thing I found was the ATC step-up procedure, which is when they assign me an initial altitude and they keep waiting until I got to that altitude before they step me up to the next one.

[Guest padds]

The fact of the matter is that MS Support Teams and After Sales teams are not yet ready.I know a lot of people see a product like this as something the company just writes and then lets loose, but that really is not the case.Ms really wont be that bothered by the early sales, its really no big deal to them that a meere fraction of a percentage of sales happened early.The date of the 29th is not when it has to be sold, its when Microsoft will be READY for it to be sold. Its when the QA, Development, Application Support and even the first tier support people will have received the relevant training, documentation and facilities to HELP the customer who is having problems.There are a whole slew of activities going on right now as MS, there are Marketing people, Technical people and Managers galore getting ready for this product. Web pages are being finished, FAQs being written, info going into the Knowledgebase, databases being updatedwith this new product, catalogues being redone etc.... this is a HUGE undertaking and is the real reason for the existance of the date.I have it early also and I have problems with it, but I wont complain until I know Microsoft have had time to see it in the real world and address the issues that can never be found in Beta. A million copies of a program is something you just cant test 100% for. Sure right now some of the bugs seem a little obvious, like the multi-monitor issue, but who is to say that isnt something they have addressed with NVidia and ATI and it needed their assistance, and it will need their drivers updated etc...? I worked for a long time in the games realm (way too long!) and you would not believe the activity going on right now for the release.Jonathan O'Connor

[Ken Pryor 0]

Well said Jonathan (O'Connor) :)KP

[Guest kyle]

Jonathan - original topic poster.You are trolling my friend. How 'bout looking at it another way.The minority is always louder then the majority. So if you honestly think, the majority of people are having problems, you are too naive I am afraid. Using your rational, I would be just as justified in posting, FS2004 is awesome!! (Which it is, btw). Considering how many copies are for sale at this time, these forums only have a few complaints so it must be just so awesome that everyone is flying it rather then coming here.The above is more true I would think then your wild assumptions.Oh, BTW, I was on the beta test team, and I own an ATI 9700 Pro. Perhaps you should not assume any longer and just wait until you have the sim.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"My guess is that beta testers were not allowed to say anything about any troubles they had, they were just allowed to post beautiful screen shots to make us drool."Jonathan--Do a search on "Johnci" in this forum. You'll see that I've noted issues, with no repercussions from Microsoft. We were and still are allowed to comment on our experiences with gold. Microsoft did not require any of us to lead anyone down a garden path. I can't comment on the ATI issue, as I have a GeForce card. But I did try a Radeon 9200 briefly, and had no issues--other than the 9200 was a slouch on my system, quite likely because I have 98se, so I returned it.Issues I've raised in previous threads:Inconsisten fps when the weather engine is fired up, and around certain cities...Min memory spec being unrealistic--384 megs is the absolute minimum IMHOClouds at night being too brightMultiplayer having many of FS2002's issuesYet I am still welcome in the testing circle. And if anything, it's probably because honesty sells more software than dishonesty. I haven't seen any testers being dishonest or deliberately concealing information. What I have seen are some overwhelmed by what they see, and I don't blame them for touching only the highlights. Me--FS2004 is great, but I was more excited I was able to lock a 5.5 pct rate on my home before rates soared again, and that's taken most of my time the past two months....

[Guest padds]

>The minority is always louder then the majority. So if you>honestly think, the majority of people are having problems,>you are too naive I am afraid. Digging way back (can look and see if I still have the survey) but it came to about 4% average across 10 titles we did, so 96% of people played it without issue.BTW support is one of the factors that make consoles popular to the software companies, every box is the same....-Jonathan (Padds) :)