An interesting topic...

[WarpD 824]

This isn't about customer service. That's an error on your part to make that assumption.This is about when someone purchases something and then when it doesn't meet their expectations they attempt to use "the customer is always right" as a battleaxe to break through the "barriers" and get what they want. Of course... this isn't just an FS addon topic... but then, that's really easy to forget. I'm willing to bet all of us at one time or another have used "the customer is always right" as a way to force or coerce a business to cave in to our demands.So... if you and Mr. Scott think this is all about customer service and bad-mouthing FS developers.... congratulations... you missed the point!

[N400QW 205]

Captain Sim, FSD, Ariane, Papa Tango, SSW, FlightScenery, Wilco Publishing...there is a long list of developers and publishers that have histories of poor or no customer support after the sale (i.e. closing down forums, not answering e-mails, etc), or of accusing customers of being pirates when they can't install a product they paid for, practicing bait-and-switch sales schemes on a website that advertises a sale price and then charges them full price, or promising updates and fixes that never come, or just disappearing entirely. It's entirely legit to point that out when their name comes up, and until those that do abuse their customers mend their ways, people SHOULD be warned about how they operate. If their sales are mitigated...SEVERELY mitigated, even...then so be it until their behavior changes.------------FlightScenery, as far as I know, is still today selling products for which the developer hasn't bothered to come onto his forum to support in years.Support requests for Wilco products are transmitted in the blind to a message hopper that's like the roach motel for support...the requests go in, but rarely does anything come out.So you're not all shining knights, doing right by your customers and getting no love (or money) in exchange. There are bad actors out there wearing developer hats, and sometimes even the better companies produce or market a flaky product that people should be warned about. And those doing the warning are not the equivalent of "FS thieves" for warning others about their bad experiences. The fact that they do warn others about bad products or customer support indicates they do care for the community and not just themselves.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

Bob, you may be surprised to know that we agree on a number of the points you've posted. The OP post looks at the issue of whether the "customer is always right" or even if "he ever was always right?"It is abundantly clear that that phrase has been used as a club or battleaxe against legitimate and illigitimate business alike since it was coined.Note that the question is not asked about vendors, developers, or business folks because it is abundantly clear that vendors, developers, or business folks "are NOT always right". That is the proximate cause for the phrase Caveat Emptor. :( What is most troubling about the current situation in the FS Community is that there are those who take up a negative agenda under the guise of a "chicken little" who feels he must "warn the community" about company A, B, or C lest the ignorant fellow simmer be taken advantage of.That, alongside the outright madness of users causing themselves to be banned from support forums then bringing their agenda to the public under the guize of "support questions" has now reached unacceptable levels.We happen to believe that the silent majority of FS Users are much too intelligent to fall for these silly games and do actually see through the agendas as they are presently practiced. :(

[N400QW 205]

Todd, I see a reasonably mature "food for thought" discussion.

[N400QW 205]

Of course customers are not always right but, as Bob Scott points out, neither are developers.A decision to buy anything is based on wider aspects than just the quality of the product. These wider aspects include the reputation and attitude of the supplier. This, and other similar, forums provide the information to allow potential customers to make reasoned decisions based on all factors - quality, reputation and attitude. In somes cases the information is feed-back provided by purchasers: in others it's directly from the developers - sometimes counter-productively.

Agreed, the "developer is NOT always right" anymore than the "customer is always right".From our perspective, we run a simple retail model, nothing more or less.That means that we have certain responsibilities to meet regarding product design, implimentation, and sale.That also means that we have certain product support obligations such as documention and support forums where best interests of legitimate customers is protected.That also includes a refund option for those we are unable to satisfy.At no time do we have an obligation to answer product support questions in public foums.Product support questions must be placed in our Support Forums by registerd Forum Members in good standing.At no time are we obligated to be a "doormat" for unruly or just plain inacurate "customers".Too often, legitimate and illegitimate users alike register. The illegimate user then proceeds to behave towards us in a such a way as to be banned, then goes to the nearest public forum, and restarts his agenda under some "ploy" such as "warning the folks" about vendor ABC.Not a very wholesome game is it?The net result is that user usually has a spotlight and proceeds to distribute misinformation and the gullible "chime in or gang up" on the vendor who happens to be the "flavor for that week." This game has been perpetrated all too often on every development house you can name. Some deservedly, others, not so much. :(

[WarpD 824]

I'll state again... hopefully everyone will notice: This isn't a discussion about support. It's a discussion about making a purchase and then berating the retailer over trivial or non-essential expectations that were never promised or discussed before purchase.It's about the inherent belief that "the customer is always right" and it's base invalid premise. This isn't just in the FS addon world, it's everywhere.

[N400QW 205]

Well put Ed. The principles discussed here apply to all retail/wholesale businesses and their customers. :(

[n4gix 4,947]

Perhaps one way would be to rethink the use of inappropriate smiles for example. Ban the use of the "rolling eyes" for one! I personally am offended by that one in particular.

That bothers you? Ok. But sometime ago you said in a post "and I are not the problem" and added :( and you know what? I have been terribly offended each time since then that you use that emoticon!

Todd, that tongue-in-cheek comment of mine was directed towards one specific individual. My point being that replies from developers should be as polite, professional and well-mannered as possible.The misuse of an emoticon that implies any degree of sarcasm or scorn (such as the rolling-eyes) completely destroys any such intention, and most often causes the actual answer to be ignored.And yes, I'm quite certain that I myself have been guilty of unintentionally using an inappropriate emoticon on occasion... :(

[TPerson 15]

Ed, Ron, and Bill thank you for your responses.I understand what you are saying now and can understand your concerns.My apologies for misunderstanding your intentions.Todd

[N400QW 205]

Ed, Ron, and Bill thank you for your responses.I understand what you are saying now and can understand your concerns.My apologies for misunderstanding your intentions.Todd

No problem Todd. Thanks for the interaction. :(

[mgh 89]

In the command economies of socialist eastern-europe customers (there were no consumers) had to accept what it was decided (by others) they could have, and were expected to be grateful for what they got.Like it or not the world has changed and moaning in these forums about consumer behaviour isn't going to change it. Sellers of anything, including FS add-ons (which are luxury goods) need to accept that they are going to be criticised (whether they think it if fair or not) and respond accordingly. Coming into these forums and announcing that whether of not purchasers get support is at the developers sole discretion is surely counter-productive? Incidentally, I've previously wondered why purchasers of a typical $50 add-on expect an unlimited one-to-one support service. A common complaint is "I e-mailed xxxx and I haven't had a reply". The answer to that is surely to ask why should you expect it - what other software providers offer that service - Microsoft, Adobe, Discrete? I suggest that it's basically unaffordable. The average earnings in the USA are about US$19/hour http://fxtradeinfocenter.oanda.com/fxecono...hourly-earnings . Allowing for overheads, the actual cost of employment must be at least about $30/hour. If it takes, say 10 min, to deal with and reply to an email query that costs $5, which is probably of the same order of net profit on the sale! Maybe add-on developers should devote more effort to documentation and abandon support services? It could be argued that some have already done this.Finally, if FS developers think they are hard done by let me quote from a restaurant review in the UK Sunday Times last week. The restaurant reviewed was in a 15th century building that is reputed to be haunted. The headline read A decent lunch? Not a ghost of a chance here? A key comment in the review was "... very good for the diet because you can't eat anything - the food is like lead"http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...inners_dinners/

[WarpD 824]

1 - You missed the point, again. It's not about support.... it's about unreasonable expectations after a purchase.2 - This isn't about FS developers... though you apparently want it to be. It's about retailers vs consumers.I found the article, found it interesting... and it got me to thinking.Now, how about staying actually on topic, ok?

[N400QW 205]

Hmm, I hadn't noticed any moaning but do see the thread as "food for thought".While some of the discussion deals with the FS market place it really applies to ALL types of businesses and customers. :(

[Glynn 405]

Hmm, I hadn't noticed any moaning but do see the thread as "food for thought".While some of the discussion deals with the FS market place it really applies to ALL types of businesses and customers. :(

RonI'm never going to get my new BJ-400 if you guys are going to spend all day in here gossiping :(

[N400QW 205]

Ha ha, all good things come to those who wait. There are a few in line before that project. In fact there is a new one that has caused all others to go part time but that is a discussion for another day.But I digress, let's stay on topic. :(Edit, on second thought it doesn't stray too far as it deals with customers expectations so thanks for asking. :(

[Peter Clemenko 0]

You are right up to a point, yes the customer is not always right, however it doesn't help to alienate the customer ether. I have seen instances where customer service has done some pretty stupid things. I once got told by MS tech support to buy another copy of FSX due to that my copy was lagging to the point of only getting 3-7 FPS.