Flying and FMC equipped aircraft using standard FSX ATC

[yellowjack 28]

For all of the FMS jocks I ask this question:How can an FMS equipped aircraft be flown using standard FSX ATC? As a sub question what methods and procedures are used to fly an FMS equipped aircraft into a non towered airport in the RW/FSX?I don't use FMS equipped aircraft at the moment but having read a bit about their use via several add-ons manuals I am of the belief that this should be possible. It seems that many users (including myself) get "FMS fright" because of those magical words "STARS and SIDS". I figure (from RW observation) that it must be possible to run a FMC equipped aircraft from a non procedural/non towered airport to a non procedural/non towered airport.I look forward to reading words of wisdom from the tubeliner drivers.

[Paul_Yorks 97]

Big question, but a good one.I'm not an expert, but will throw in a few views.I fly a number of FMC-planes using FSX ATC. Most will let you load the FSX plan into the FMC - so ATC knows what your FMC is doing, and the 2 won't fall out.If you want to ignore ATC for a bit, just "tune" the next frequency, without contacting it - that will leave ATC in suspense, so to speak, and you can do SIDs/STARs to your hearts content. Re-tune when you're ready to land.For another level of realism, get Radar Contact (a search here will show you how highly rated it is) - altogether a nicer approach (!) to ATC.Don't forget you can always cancel an IFR flight from the ATC menu - then, when your FMC has done its thing, you can use the ATC window to grab "nearest airport" - and get tower to agree your full stop landing there and then - ideal, if your FMC has brought you down through STAR & approach so all you need is ATC to ok the landing.Many ways to do it. Play with a few, and you'll find there are some to suit.Edit: I didn't answer your question about non-towered aps - but the fmcs do a great job here. Just specify an approach in the fmc - sometimes nothing more difficult than specifying a fix 10 miles out from the runway - and that will ensure that you turn, 10 miles out, to the runway heading - so you're bound to capture the ILS, or, if VFR, you'll be lined up exactly on the runway heading. Very nice, once you play with it - I highly recommend the v.2 ERJ jets from Feelthere, which have wonderfully flexible FMC approaches and plans - work needed, but great fun when you get there.

[threelittlefish 0]

You need to get the program FSbuild. It allows you to build and import flight plans into FSX. You can go to Flightaware.com and look up real world routing then copy it into FSbuild and import it into FSX. Then ATC will allow you to proceed as filed. It also alows you to print a flight plan and calculates fuel burn and ETA at each fix for many aircraft. I use it wit hthe PMDG 747. You will need to keep your FMS updated with AIRAC updates.

[yellowjack 28]

You need to get the program FSbuild. It allows you to build and import flight plans into FSX. You can go to Flightaware.com and look up real world routing then copy it into FSbuild and import it into FSX. Then ATC will allow you to proceed as filed. It also alows you to print a flight plan and calculates fuel burn and ETA at each fix for many aircraft. I use it wit hthe PMDG 747. You will need to keep your FMS updated with AIRAC updates.

Thanks but this doesn't really answer the question, so:How does the default ATC know about changes with AIRAC cycles? What is the FSBUILD routing for YSSY to YSWG?

[n4gix 4,947]

How does the default ATC know about changes with AIRAC cycles?

It doesn't, which is why I don't bother with 'em at all unless flying online. I tell the FMS to use the FSX default data instead of the AIRAC data. Of course, not all FMS/FMC are able to use FS9/FSX data... :(

[threelittlefish 0]

Thanks but this doesn't really answer the question, so:How does the default ATC know about changes with AIRAC cycles? What is the FSBUILD routing for YSSY to YSWG?

ATC will not know about the AIRAC update but if your going to use real world routing and the real world is using the latest navdata then the out of date navdata in the FMC will not recognize the route your entering.

[yellowjack 28]

ATC will not know about the AIRAC update but if your going to use real world routing and the real world is using the latest navdata then the out of date navdata in the FMC will not recognize the route your entering.

I didn't start this AIRAC sidetrack. I am talking about using the standard FSX planner and if that is not understood by the Aircraft FMS then repeat the same plan in the appropriate planning tool for use in the FMS. What I want to know is can a FMS be used rather like the default GPS to nav to a waypoint and then descend and complete an approach according to Standard FSX ATC instructions. It seems to me that if FSX ATC gives you a descent and vector, all one had to do is take the FMS out of Lnav mode select the assigned heading with the heading bug, press the MCP Heading switch and use the MCP altitude slector for the descent . Hence my question about RW flights and approaches to an uncontrolled airport. Take off is a no brainer as the FSX ATC will vector you to your first waypoint then all one has to do is give the FMS a "Direct to" CMD and select the first waypoint on the FMS plan. I am not in the slightest bit interested in SIDS and STARS as they are only used at major airports.I am concerned that members, including myslef begin to assume a belief that if you fly an aircraft with an FMS then one must use STARS and SIDS. After much thought I can't see why this should be so but as I don't use FMS equipped aircraft in FSX I can't verify my thoughts. I have yet to see any FSX aircraft documentation for Aircraft FMS's that does not give SIDS and STARS in its instructions which probably accounts for the thought that they must be programmed into the FMS which is true if you are going to use them. I can see (RW) FMS equipped commercial RPT aircraft fly into a local airfield that is untowered and only has an MTAF frequency for comms and one non grasss runway runway, no localiser, no glideslope and no published procedures. If commercial RW RPT can do it why couldn't FSX?

[threelittlefish 0]

What I want to know is can a FMS be used rather like the default GPS to nav to a waypoint and then descend and complete an approach according to Standard FSX ATC instructions.

All STARS consist of is a documented form of a clearance. If you file a flight plan in the real world and tell them "NO SIDS/NO STARS" guess what.... you will still fly the STAR but they will have to read you your entire clerance instead of just giving you the STAR name. Sooo.... the answer is yes just enter the entire STAR manually waypoint by waypoint into the FMS and fly the approach from whatever the IAF is.If your going to an airport without an approach then you need to cancel IFR and proceed VFR.RPT ????

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

I gave up using the FSX ATC for IFR years ago. The only way you can get them to vector you to way points in a SID/STAR is to program it into the FSX flight planner so that it matches the route in the FMC/FMS. I did that for a while but it was much to time consuming for me to map the route in the FSX flight planner as well as program the route in the FMC, just so ATC would match the route I was flying. Plus some of the way point intersections weren't available in FSX'es flight planner.Now, when flying a plane such as the LDS 767 I just program the route in the FMC and if I use FSX ATC I just request the departure runway for VFR flight, program the said runway and STAR into the fmc, and go. On arrival since I check the weather before hand I already have a good idea of what direction I will be landing so I just contact ATC for the airport and request permission to full stop landing. After they assign the runway for me to use I just set the FMC to use the same and load the rest of the ILS procdure. FSX and FS9 ATC is pretty much useless in my book for IFR. They will vector you into mountains and 30 mile ILS approaches. Even if I am doing a flight that is IFR, I just request VFR clearances from ATC. If they come back and say that the airport is currently IFR Requested denied, then I just proceed on my own and listen to the tower anyway to see what direction and runways the traffic is using.

[Gazzareth 808]

Like others have posted I gave up using FSX IFR a long time ago, just used weather reports and then used VFR which made it much less annoying. Just made the leap to Radar Contact, which is much better - you can tell it you are flying a SID / STAR and it leaves you alone until you get on route (in the case of a SID) or it is time to get landing clearance (in the case of a STAR & Approach).G

[DC_Ed 3]

All STARS consist of is a documented form of a clearance. If you file a flight plan in the real world and tell them "NO SIDS/NO STARS" guess what.... you will still fly the STAR but they will have to read you your entire clerance instead of just giving you the STAR name. Sooo.... the answer is yes just enter the entire STAR manually waypoint by waypoint into the FMS and fly the approach from whatever the IAF is.

Of course, since they are uncontrolled airports, you can always perform a Direct-to command to the IAF for any given approach, since there's no traffic. Or if the airport doesn't even has an approach, just dial in the last waypoint, then direct to the destination airport. Or even then, create the fix by yourself on the FMS.

[yellowjack 28]

All STARS consist of is a documented form of a clearance. If you file a flight plan in the real world and tell them "NO SIDS/NO STARS" guess what.... you will still fly the STAR but they will have to read you your entire clerance instead of just giving you the STAR name. Sooo.... the answer is yes just enter the entire STAR manually waypoint by waypoint into the FMS and fly the approach from whatever the IAF is.If your going to an airport without an approach then you need to cancel IFR and proceed VFR.RPT ????

RPT = Regular Public Transport. In Oz RPT aircraft must file an IFR flightplan for all flights and, IIRC, all flights over 10,000' must fly IFR. This may have changed I've been out of the real skies for about ten years now. In FSX you can file an IFR flightplan and ATC will direct your to your airport and then hand you over to the local frequency (MTAF/CTAF) once you confirm the airport is in sight.