I really don't know for sure because I don't have the VRS F/A-18, but if that's true what Dan8705 says in a post on this thread about not getting support for his VRS F/A -18 because he has the boxed version rather than a download from the site and they've only got a fiver from such a sale, thus won't offer support, then I personally think that's a bit rum to be honest. A fiver is still a fiver and I would think that warrants at least some kind of assistance. There is also the point that one forum answer to an issue often serves to help numerous people having that issue. Thus I would like to think they might reconsider such a policy (if that genuinely is the case) although that is of course their choice.Naturally enough, this is where places like AVSIM come in handy, and since I'm pretty sure most people would use similar names on various forums on the internet (and almost certainly the same IP address if a developer fancies turning detective), I guess it's easy enough to tell who the people that show up on AVSIM are that legitimately buy stuff rather than stock up on dodgy torrents. Thus it is probably no bad thing to offer help to such people via this forum when you can be reasonably sure that they are a legitimate owner of the software.Al

I really don't know for sure because I don't have the VRS F/A-18, but if that's true what Dan8705 says in a post on this thread about not getting support for his VRS F/A -18 because he has the boxed version rather than a download from the site and they've only got a fiver from such a sale, thus won't offer support, then I personally think that's a bit rum to be honest. A fiver is still a fiver and I would think that warrants at least some kind of assistance. There is also the point that one forum answer to an issue often serves to help numerous people having that issue. Thus I would like to think they might reconsider such a policy (if that genuinely is the case) although that is of course their choice.Naturally enough, this is where places like AVSIM come in handy, and since I'm pretty sure most people would use similar names on various forums on the internet (and almost certainly the same IP address if a developer fancies turning detective), I guess it's easy enough to tell who the people that show up on AVSIM are that legitimately buy stuff rather than stock up on dodgy torrents. Thus it is probably no bad thing to offer help to such people via this forum when you can be reasonably sure that they are a legitimate owner of the software.Al

What Dan writes is accurate... the same was noted over at SoH, and this policy stopped me from buying the Best Buy version as well. Either make it clear on the box you won't get support or don't distribute it to Best Buy.RE: Closed forums to stop people from getting support to pirated copies.... works for me! If you come looking for information look no further than the various flight sim forums. Ask a question, and you'll find the good and the bad about XYZ product.

Private Support Forums are created to offer legitimate customers a place to get support. They also offer the developer and publisher a quantifiable measure of comfort knowing that only legitimate customers are being cared for.Level-D Simulations and Flight1 have adopted this model to maximize support efficiency. If pirates want support, head over to bittorrent and have at it.This is a business, and products need some protection. We hide nothing in our forums: if users want to ask general questions about any products they are free to do so in the general forum. If the question involves support, then these questions are not answered until the poster registered.I think this is a win/win for both parties. A measure of comfort for customers who know their posts will be answered expeditiously and fairly by the support team, and a measure of comfort for the publisher, developer and support team that all support efforts are being offered to legitimate customers.Love it or loathe it, more developers will follow this model.

You say its a win/win for both parties... who are these parties you talk about? the developer and people who paid more for the same product through their website? what about the people who legitimately buy the software from other sources, like bestbuy? i guess they are the ones that lose according to you. Several people on here have mentioned the same solution to your "pirating" problem. Provide a license number and password that come with the legitimate software. Done.

Here is what their website says, according to the admin that only sent me a link and nothing else:CUSTOMERS WITH DISCOUNTED PRODUCTS MAY NEED TO OBTAIN SEPARATE SUPPORT SUBSCRIPTIONS If you can't post messages, it means your license is tied to a SKU with a steeply discounted price, probably through Best Buy or another "brick and mortar" retailer such as GameStop. The margins VRS actually receives on these units is so small that we can't possibly provide interactive support. We realize this is an inconvenience, but we cannot afford to pay personnel to provide technical support when we literally make under $5/copy on the software you purchased. YOUR ISSUE HAS PROBABLY ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED It is highly likely that simply using the FAQs or the search facility will quickly yield the answer to the vast majority of questions. START with the FAQs and stickies in the forums. If your problem is activation related, and ONLY activation related, you may send an email to support[at]vrsimulations.com and INCLUDE YOUR LICENSE ID in the email.IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO UPDATE YOUR SUPPORT LEVEL, but are currently ineligible, a support option may be purchased from your customer page at additional cost. Once you've purchased a support upgrade, you can elevate your forum permissions by visiting the License Update page and typing in your license ID and license password Note that the purchase of a separate support option does not entitle you to violate forum policy. If you are angry, disgruntled, or otherwise prone to lash out, please do it someplace else. VRS requires all of our visitors to be respectful, and in return we will be diligent in solving your problem. That says it all. I buy a licensed copy and get no support. Poor customer service. Like ryanbatcund said, "Either make it clear on the box you won't get support or don't distribute it to Best Buy."

Dividing customers into two separate classes by the amount of money they've spent is a very, very strange policy indeed. Extra fees to receive active support (in forums, they don't have to drive by your home) therefore seems odd and I must admit that I wasn't aware of that thing at VRS.There products are outstanding so far, very good, but this policy thing adds something negative to the bill, no doubt.Who's to blame when they don't get money out of their selling items? The customer or the guy who sets up the contracts and the company's management? Why not go "download only", at the VRS site and nowhere else?'You've only paid us 5 bucks, you are only allowed to read, not to speak!' Now that's a world everyone of us dreams of, right? Hope not!After charging people for extended download services or other items which should be standard, but are made "extra", this thing really shows some class. Looks like the oh so common face of capitalism to me. Personal viewpoint here.Thumbsup for all devs which really support people and don't invent such strange methods to get some more out of them. I'm willing to pay, for good and honest services and products.Thanks for that eye opener concerning VRS. As said, really good product there, this F-18, but this policy is worth mentioning.

Boxed versions with Level-D and Flight1 have access to the support forum.For some companies to not support CD/DVD's is not supportable policy, IMHO.

Boxed versions with Level-D and Flight1 have access to the support forum.For some companies to not support CD/DVD's is not supportable policy, IMHO.

Yes but if you read what I said, if you buy the boxed version, you can only view the forum. You can not post new threads or ask any public questions. You basically get ZERO support for buying the same product from a different supplier. All because they are afraid of helping someone who may have pirated the software; ya that makes a lot of sense. Hey guys. Did I mention you have to supply the license number and password provided with the copy I purchased just to even sign up to "use" the forum?? Yes, that's right. Even after providing them the license number and password (needed to register and install the product in the first place) which is in the sealed box with the DVD, just to view the forum, they still won't let you ask or post anything. (I know that was all kinda redundant. Guess I wanted to make that very clear how ridiculous their policy is).

Dividing customers into two separate classes by the amount of money they've spent is a very, very strange policy indeed. Extra fees to receive active support (in forums, they don't have to drive by your home) therefore seems odd and I must admit that I wasn't aware of that thing at VRS.There products are outstanding so far, very good, but this policy thing adds something negative to the bill, no doubt.Who's to blame when they don't get money out of their selling items? The customer or the guy who sets up the contracts and the company's management? Why not go "download only", at the VRS site and nowhere else?'You've only paid us 5 bucks, you are only allowed to read, not to speak!' Now that's a world everyone of us dreams of, right? Hope not!After charging people for extended download services or other items which should be standard, but are made "extra", this thing really shows some class. Looks like the oh so common face of capitalism to me. Personal viewpoint here.Thumbsup for all devs which really support people and don't invent such strange methods to get some more out of them. I'm willing to pay, for good and honest services and products.Thanks for that eye opener concerning VRS. As said, really good product there, this F-18, but this policy is worth mentioning.

Thank you. I really hope the word gets out there as a warning to future buyers. Having said this i want to make this clear: I'm in no way saying "don't buy this plane"! This plane is AWESOME! the detail and textures and sound, not to mention the ability to customize weapon loadouts and actually fire them in fsx is incredible. I'd definitely buy it again. However, all I'm saying is if you plan to buy it from best buy or frys or any place like that, other than the website itself, don't expect to get ANY support from VRS at all.

As said, Dan, I really got your viewpoint there and I'm with you. Great plane, strange policy and really something to think about instead of stating "not my business". Thanks. :smile:And now, 'shut up, you've only paid us five bucks!' (kidding of course, the 'speak pack' comes for just 3)

As said, Dan, I really got your viewpoint there and I'm with you. Great plane, strange policy and really something to think about instead of stating "not my business". Thanks. :smile:And now, 'shut up, you've only paid us five bucks!' (kidding of course, the 'speak pack' comes for just 3)

I know you know. Just letting others know

Pritty strange policy indeed. That they scare about giving support to non legal customers is accepted, but are then customers who bought it from other legal sources also non-legal customers? They could do it like Level-D or Flight 1. If you want to get support there you just have to verifiy you with the supplied unique registry code and that´s all and you´ll get full access to their support forums. That´s a policy which makes sense but what VRS does is just rediculous.

That is what VRS does. When you buy the program, whether it's from a store or from their website, you get a printed registration code and password (the boxed version) and you have to register it to even view the forum. Same procedure as when you buy it from the website. I guess the registration codes have special sequence in there that let's them know if you bought it from them or a store. It's stupid.

In my opinion, whether a customer buys a product either directly from an software maker's online store or through a dealer, the customer is entitled to the same quality level of support regardless of where he/she buys it from. The fact that the maker of the software was not able to successfully negotiate terms with their retail dealers suitable to their own business desires should not mean that an unsuspecting customer should be treated with a lesser entitlement of support, especially with little forewarning.

In my opinion, whether a customer buys a product either directly from an software maker's online store or through a dealer, the customer is entitled to the same quality level of support regardless of where he/she buys it from. The fact that the maker of the software was not able to successfully negotiate terms with their retail dealers suitable to their own business desires should not mean that an unsuspecting customer should be treated with a lesser entitlement of support, especially with little forewarning.

Mark those words! Fully agreed there and very pleased with the fact that a commercial member wrote them.A very supportable attitude in my humble eyes. :(

What a crappy thing to do. The VRS Superbug is a marvelous product but had I known about their ridiculous tiered support scheme beforehand I would not have purchased it on principle alone. If I still had mine in the shrink wrap I would return it to BB for a refund. If Avsim does a review on the FSX version I hope the reviewer plainly states to the reader VRS' hidden support tier. Talk about feeling like the red headed stepchild solely because I bought my copy from the "wrong" place!

In my opinion, whether a customer buys a product either directly from an software maker's online store or through a dealer, the customer is entitled to the same quality level of support regardless of where he/she buys it from. The fact that the maker of the software was not able to successfully negotiate terms with their retail dealers suitable to their own business desires should not mean that an unsuspecting customer should be treated with a lesser entitlement of support, especially with little forewarning.

I just checked online. The VRS price is US $44.95 and the bestBuy price is US $29.99.The customer is entitled to what the seller offers. There's no offer or even mention of support on the BestBuy site or in the purchase process. What makes you think you're entitled support when you've bought it cheap from BestBuy? The fact is you aren't - BestBuy delivers what it describes on its site, and that doesn't include support..