Real flight kills my desire to Sim!

[barryward12345 0]

In another forum , I posted that I had, at age 57, done my first hands-on flight in an ultralight ( a larger mini-Cessna type Aussie a/c) and posted my thoughts and emotions experienced .I have reflown the same flight using FS2002 and have discovered that it left me completely flat, cold and unenthused. It feels to me that the Sim has successfully taught me the theories and skills involved in flight - but now my brain is telling me that there is absolutely no correlation between what I experienced in the real flight and Sim flight.I know that there are, in this forum, a lot of realtime and ex-realtime pilots who are also enthusiastic Simmers -- would any of them care to comment on what I seem to be experiencing.I was all pumped up to buy FS2004 when it hits the shelves here in Australia -- but now I am not so sure.Barry

[Guest padds]

I like the simulator for a few reasons:1) Fun. You can if you want play around, do stuff you just could not do in a real aircraft without either killing yourself or loosing your licence to operate it :)2) Practice. When you cant get behind real controls because of weather etc... doing the flight you would have done, doing all the instrument scanning, visual scans etc... I think just fills the gap a little.3) Knowledge. It isnt nearly perfect but the layout is roughly right and its enough that sometimes a flight in the simulator prepares you for odd things in the real aircraft...4) Advanced Stuff. Right now I am still learning VFR in a real plane, but I use the simulator to fly various IFR flights in terible weather. Sure I wont be IFR qualified, but I feel a comfort level with the IFR setup will help me be a better VFR pilot.There are other reasons, I happen to be a computer geek for a job and this at least gives me something I enjoy on my computer that isnt work! Jonathan O'Connor

[Dark Moment 0]

Plus, Barry, imagine the cost of getting your ultralight to Alaska, Bali and Switzerland on the same day.And if you break it, there's always a 747.Geof Applegate is a simmer who regulary flies what he sims. He seems to be happy enough doing both. Maybe it was just a rotten day when you simulated your real flight; or you forgot the beer - another great sim benefit that raises more than the occasional eyebrow in the real world!.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

[Bray 1]

Well I can tell you as an x real time private pilot, flight sim is nothing like the real thing and I think its a stretch to compare the two. They are for sure two different experiences as you have noted. Enjoy them both for what they are worth. In FS I can at least fly a full IMC ILS approach in a B737 and walk away only with sweaty palms, and not 100 lives depending on me. I take off my hat to those pilots.Also in truth I can tell you, it is much easier to fly a real cessna than the one in FS any version. The aircraft in real life is much easier to handle and maintain straight and level flight. If you can fly hands on manually in FS its a real accomplishment. And there is the challenge for a lot of us..can we conquer the beast ? :-)Enjoy them both and happy soaringBill

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Barry,I have to tell you, FS2004 is the best ultralight platform I've seen. I'm keeping both FS2002 and FS2004. FS2002 I'm keeping for aircraft design, scenery design, and flights in "fast" aircraft where I'm more interested in approach and landing than the scenery. FS2004 provides the most beautiful ultralight/microlight flying environment I've ever seen. Of the two aircraft I've either designed or helped design, one of them was a Microlight. FS2004's implementation of turbulence, along with it's weather implementation, gives me a feeling that I'm part of a living, dynamic sky--essential for being in an Ultralight, I think. So, to sum up, you can't go wrong with FS2004 if ultralight flying's your passion!

[E 0]

A sim will never come close to the real thing in any genre. You just take it for what it is... a pastime. But, if you're married, I'll bet your wife would prefer you to do FS2004 over a real ultralight anyday of the week!

[phjvh 0]

Hi,This afternoon yearly profcheck in a Skyhawk.At the moment wrestling with complicated aircraft-systems and testing them at Fl 350 over Greenland in a 767-300....I like real and simulated flight both very much and if i was forced to choose between them, then that could be a very difficult decision!Jan"Procul Negotiis"

[Guest iflyskyhawks]

I have about 130 hours in late model Skyhawks and Skyhawk SP's. Flight Simming is something I've been doing since I was a child (back in the days of SubLogic's FLIGHT SIMULATOR II).It created a powerful introduction to aviation. When I took my Discovery Flight back in August of 2001, the Skyhawk's cockpit was a familiar sight - I already knew what an attitude indicator and turn coordinator did, etc.Fast forward to today. I just purchased FS2004 and am in the early stages of my real-world training for the Instrument Rating. FS2004's support of instrument approaches makes it a wonderful tool in introducing me to the approaches at airports in my area.A substitute for the real thing? Heaven's no!A useful tool? Absolutely, without a doubt.I believe that the more serious you treat the flight sim (e.g. doing engine run-up's and following checklists) the more it gives back to you.Please visit my web site for more information on real-world flying!Take care...

[Guest Calb]

I've always contended FS was originally written for real pilots. They are familiar with the tactile feel of a real airplane that the non-pilot can't possibily imagine -- even after taken one of the 1/2-hour "Fam" flights.Let's face it. Where else can the real pilot forget about the weather, forget rules and regs, forget time-wasting runups and not be annoyed by some ATC guy that insists on telling you what to do. Sure, sometimes it's neat to have all that but mostly....not (IMHO).I have to hand it MS -- it ain't perfect but it sure has enabled me to keep "current". I recently did an hour of touch n goes in a Cherokee 140, an airplane I haven't even been in over 35 years. Had no trouble squeaking the tires every time and painting the numbers on our 2100 ft strip.Long live MSFS (98,2000,2002 or 2004)Cal

[barryward12345 0]

>Barry,>>I have to tell you, FS2004 is the best ultralight platform>I've seen. I'm keeping both FS2002 and FS2004. FS2002 I'm>keeping for aircraft design, scenery design, and flights in>"fast" aircraft where I'm more interested in approach and>landing than the scenery. >>FS2004 provides the most beautiful ultralight/microlight>flying environment I've ever seen. Of the two aircraft I've>either designed or helped design, one of them was a>Microlight. FS2004's implementation of turbulence, along with>it's weather implementation, gives me a feeling that I'm part>of a living, dynamic sky--essential for being in an>Ultralight, I think. Hmm-- in FS2002, I have always flown with the turbulence turned off --it always seemed not right to me . I didn't have any real world experience to go on , of course. But the panel jittering all over the screen and the airspeed needle, etc also jittering up and down was a turnoff to me .But , in my RL flight, the turbulence frightened hell out of me and I could certainly see that the gauges were not rock steady but all over the place.I will have to try a flight with turbulence turned on and see how it goes.Barry

[barryward12345 0]

>It created a powerful introduction to aviation. When I took>my Discovery Flight back in August of 2001, the Skyhawk's>cockpit was a familiar sight - I already knew what an attitude>indicator and turn coordinator did, etc.Oh yes -- I was not trying to say that the Sim is no good -- just that it suddenly was leaving me a bit flat after experiencing "the real thing". It certainly is a great training and educational tool and what someone else described as a "procedural" trainer. I also knew what these gauges were for -- more than I would have without experience in the Sim.>>Fast forward to today. I just purchased FS2004 and am in the>early stages of my real-world training for the Instrument>Rating. FS2004's support of instrument approaches makes it a>wonderful tool in introducing me to the approaches at airports>in my area.>>A substitute for the real thing? Heaven's no!>>A useful tool? Absolutely, without a doubt.>>I believe that the more serious you treat the flight sim (e.g.>doing engine run-up's and following checklists) the more it>gives back to you.Yes -- I can see that if you are a RW pilot -- especially a new one undergoing training -- then a realistic cockpit/panel would be most valuable.Barry

[brucek 38]

Hi Baz,I have nearly 200 hours in C172SP's. To compare FS with the real thing for VFR flight is like comparing going to the footy game or watching it on TV. On TV, you get to see the best of shots that you could never possibly see at the game (equates with all the stuff you can with FS, but not the real thing), and even have a commentator. And you don't have to go anywhere, just turn the telly on (or PC for FS). And it's free.So- why is it that we pay big bucks, go to the game in snow and winter wx, stand in line to only see a fraction of the visuals that we could at home? It's the atmosphere, and being there.I find the above the ultimate comparison to this situation. And. just as some can't get tickets to the game- or can't afford to- the same analogy applies to simming again.Now- things change a little when you get into the instrument rating, as I am doing right now. The sim has a lot more reality to it- but nothing like the same thing.Bruce.

[Geofa 108]

Just as a side note-I just flew to Oshkosh. When landing in Green Bay I faced a ceiling of 400 ft. and 2 miles in fog.I had flown that approach in fs9 several nights before for practice.A replacement for the real thing-maybe not-but I sure felt like I had done it before- many times.I happened to talk to Rod Machado at Oshkosh-first questions off his lips when I mentioned I was a simmer long before taking up piloting was-"do you find the sim helps the real world flying?"Answer-without a doubt YES! What a great safety tool! What a great training tool. How amazing that we have this at our fingertips at a bargain price!Comm. instr..http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest]

Yeah, its not the same, Barry, but how could it be? Flying the add-on Abacus Flight Operations Navy craft onto the carriers does not provide the same feeling of sheer terror I recall when I was young and foolish enough to sign up for such things. Trapping on the carrier in the Flight sim, I have no sweat pouring off my face, no pucker in the aft quarter parts, no LSO chewing those aft parts for catching the No.1 wire, and, best of all, no holes in the aircraft placed there by some gook. Lt.Will Risket

[barryward12345 0]

>Yeah, its not the same, Barry, but how could it be? Flying>the add-on Abacus Flight Operations Navy craft onto the>carriers does not provide the same feeling of sheer terror I>recall when I was young and foolish enough to sign up for such>things. >>Trapping on the carrier in the Flight sim, I have no sweat>pouring off my face, no pucker in the aft quarter parts, no>LSO chewing those aft parts for catching the No.1 wire, and,>best of all, no holes in the aircraft placed there by some>gook. >>Lt.Will RisketG'day WillOf course you are absolutely right!! Although I have to admit to developing something of the sweats while flying the Sim in IFR conditions in a fast a/c!! :) But I REALLY got a feeling of "sheer terror" (as you call it ), when the instructor said "It's all yours!!" as he gunned the throttle of this ultralight and I realised that he expected me to take off in it and then when I experienced this turbulence and a kind of feeling of lack of control as we zoomed skywards. I was aware that basically the a/c would fly itself if I just let it -- but I was not prepared for the physical sensation of the turbulance.Anyway -- I guess it just means now that I HAVE to do it again!! Damn! I only wanted to try it out to get the feeling of what it would be like in RL. I'm too old to get hooked on this kind of stuff and I don't have enough money for it either!!!! :(Barry