Sad News About FS2004- Please Read

[Guest]

This is to jwenting ONLYQuote:"Plus of course because (in large part because of that) Microsoft has a lot more to do than just perfect the flight models"When Microsoft is mentioned in this forum i think we realy mean to say Microsoft Flight Simulation Development Dept Team of about 200 StaffNot Microsoft Windows XP Developemnt Team or Windows 2000 Team or Office XP Team or X-Box Team Etc............You get me man!!!!!!!!Would be too damm long winded to put into every thread

[Guest]

Alex"it is very rarely that I adress someone in the way I do now. But your posts really stick out in this and other forums. I can just remember a post where you stated that the serious simmer goes windowed mode. They are almost all inapropriate and not contributing to any of the threads they appear. This not a minor cosmetic flaw. I am sure that you did not even take the time to read what was written above. And even if you had I doubt that you have any expertise to speak up in the way you did here or in many other threads of the verious flightsim forums. And if one day their is only an X-Box version of FS it is especially people like you that are contributing to it. Not everybody who has a problem or is not completely satisfied with FS9 is a whiner. The troll here is you. To all other simmers I apologize for this OT post. But I really cannot stand this anymore without sayin sumpn."Thanks for that I could`nt have put it better myself.Here`s another example of foot in mouth Jentwing is suffering from.http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_post...p?TID=4939&PN=1This guy is just nasty and I think Flight1 made a serious mistake giving him any responsbilities in support.Nuff saidTed

[Guest dkukla]

First of all, thanks for adding this topic to this Forum. I would never known about it.I love to fly! Used to fly GA years ago and age caught up with me plus a few encounters with some "nuts" in the upper atmosphere that used to be bus drivers in Chicago. For years I have have relied on FS for many hundreds of hours enjoying the near perfect experiences again.There are many of us that have gone thru the many iterations of FS over the years and have stood in line at Best Buy to get the "new" one ASAP. I am one of those. I have been a dedicated advocate and, to this day, still get the challenge of planning a flight in the evening back to a familiar airport or a new venture around the world. My BALANCE between enjoyment and a REAL flight experience. This is where I am going here. 1. I do not like software "regression" for the sake of Marketablility. FS always added functionality and options. If this is true, and this was in 2002, why take it out? Was the code to large? Consume too many FPS's? I don't care if it is logic for dimming the lavatory light, if it is there, leave it and improve it next release. This is the REALITY aspect that MANY of us rely on and justify standing in line for! Drag, slip, etc. are REAL WORLD attributes that I want in a SIM.2. Marketability - If MS is going to change their focus for FS and reduce code size and development costs in order to make a "game" for all ages, where nobody crashes nor needs to know anything about aeronautics then they will loose a lot of us and also the developers of some fantastic addons that we all have enjoyed over the years. The product will sell more and be on everyones Sony or whatever, for $20, and every kid will have one for Christmas (MAYBE).If this is the direction, they can replace a lot of good source code with 737's with 50 calibre guns on the wings. WOW! 747's cabable of carrying 100 500 lb bombs to drop on a city of your choice. VA'S that now revert to Alien or Country specific squadrons that, online, can play war games. M$ marketing is planning our future with this product. Where they go is their choice based on the market. Plain and simple. If they elect to make a downsized "game" then they will loose the interest and $ from us + developer support. I don't think they will but, the jury is out for a while. I can always find another option to pass my time away from Corp America although I will miss this one if that is the case!My 2 cents.

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

Hi Don,I just wanted to say I agree with you. They would lose the hardcore simmers business. Whether they care or that would hurt them is not thepoint I'm trying to make. Just that it would happen. At that point, they would find out just how many hardcore simmers there really are. There are other choices to turn to if it came down to it. Maybe X-Plane or Flight Gear would get our attention. Don't know. Just wanted to say I hear and agree with your points though.Jimmy RichardsAurora, Colorado(near KDEN "Mile High") :)

[Guest]

Did you even read the rest? And do your own research (seems I'm the only one who did here, next to some commercial people like Lou Betti of Dreamfleet and Johan Dees of PSS).There is NO missing entry. They were just moved from the airfile to the aircraft.cfg file.The original poster never looked beyond the smaller filesize of the aircraft.cfg and missing entries in AirEd (which is an FS98 tool...).

[Maxis 1,846]

OMG people give it a rest. So WHAT if they screwed up?? Then Again DID THEY screw up? Did the poster take it upon himself to find someone in the know @ MS to find out if they DID REMOVE the settings or just Change it to a different location? Last time i flew in fs2k2,2000 or 98 I cant recall having the bad weather feeling as 2k4 simulates now. In some cases even if they screwed up ignorance is bliss. I had no probs with this sim and if it bothers you FDE die hards that much then stick to 2k2 or save your money (And yes I DO WORK FOR MY MONEY TOO!!) and buy some other THOUSAND DOLLAR pilot training simulator. If its not one thing its the next with some people. Please, would you like some cheese with that whine ?? The same FDE whine some people had with the 2k2 FDE when it just came out? If i were to actually follow the directions suggestions of these posts and didnt know better i probably wouldnt have bought the sim. THANK GOD i have the perspective to know where this program is coming from. How many of you have flown FS3/4? Please !! this nitpicking is ridiculous. And Yes i REALLY do find it ANNOYING that the SAME STORY had to be posted MORE THAN ONCE. Im sorry but if you were going to miss reading it then that meants you didnt care to look at the previous forum pages. Now if you feel like flaming me go right ahead because i dont think that ill be looking at this thread after i post this.

[Guest]

They should have just released two versions of 2004 like they did with 2002:Flight Simulator 2004: Pro (featuring realistic flight dynamics)&Flight Simulator 2004: Retard (featuring creamy dumbed-down goodness)There. Everybody would be happy. :7

[Guest]

That's the longest single post in a forum I've ever seen.

[Donstim 109]

Ah, but it is so much easier to believe in some conspiracy-type theory, especially when it involves Microsoft. I am dismayed, however, how a thread like this can influence someone who would otherwise be more than satisfied with FS 2004 to end up unhappy and feeling betrayed.I'm sure that the original poster, and the person who discovered that some of the flight model parameters entries based on FS 2002 style inputs no longer have an effect, had good intentions in mind. Unfortunately, instead of waiting for the SDK and/or waiting for the developer world to work their magic and discover more of the innards of FS 2004 (or just look at the aircraft.cfg file like you did -- though I would like to see someone verify by test that these inputs do have the desired effect), the notion that this was an intentional "dumbing down" of the FS flight model in order to limit the capabilities of third party developers was put forth even though there is absolutely nothing to substantiate this serious accusation.I'm sure that the Microsoft developers must be rolling their eyes and biting their lips over this. At times like this, it's too bad that Microsoft has a policy of not responding to forum messages. But then again, seeing some of the messages in this thread, I'm sure that's why the policy exists.Don S.I apologize for bumping this thread back up to the top.

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi, Way too much Quick conclusion, A TRUE aircraft/Flight Dynamic Expert designer with HIGH standard developper, which are not many here, will NEVER said conclusion like this in a post. But rather working and understand what's have change and replicate this,and waiting for the SDK for new potential to be discovered.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

[Jure 36]

Now here I disagree...FSAviator has done wonderful work in the past (for FS2k2). It may be a bit behind the scenes, but you who love and fly old propliners know what I am talking about. His flight dynamics are among the best I've ever seen. I'm not in any way related to FSAviator, but credit where credit is due!And yes, I have flown in the real world, real aircraft.If some are happy with a simpler FS, that's ok. I just wonder why do they get SCARED (obviously?!) when more demanding simmers raise their voices and try to solve a problem (a problem in their eyes)? After all, these forums are for us ALL, hardcore and video-game simmers, yes? So why is it so urgent to convince the hardcore bunch that they are so very wrong if they want a more realistic sim?? Feeling threatened? Because it's over their heads? Cry "heretic!!" and burn them as in the dark ages? Instead of respect and/or at least acknowledgment they get slammed for their knowledge and contribution to the community. Bah...Just to think that one of these "instant generation" kids will one day become the president of the most powerful country in the world makes me sick... There, rant mode off. I usually don't post a lot but some posts in this thread are a bit much. And BTW, Chris, this was in NO WAY directed at you, I just arrived here at the end. :) Regards,Jure Dolanec

[Guest Hagar]

Hi there Jure..Still flying with your clouds. Hard to beat them ;)Greetings from (former Loke)

[Guest edrutl]

Jure,It's not much "scared" as "frustrated" at the lack of patience over the problem (if it turns out to be one). More than any other release, people have been too quick to condemn this product as crap and "evil Microsoft" is trying to "screw them" - or something to the like. The community has blown every little issue, bug, or unknown factor of FS2004 completely out of proporiton.The people who help design those fantastic add-ons who know best *such as the Steve Small's, Ron Freimuth's, Lou Betti's, etc) haven't definately determined what the impact of this change is. But we've still whipped ourselves into a frezy about realism vs. a game and the business intentions of Micrsoft. If, and it's still a big if - it turns out there are some issues with flight dynamics that make realistic flight models impossible - then we should debate/discuss the issue and look for MS for answers. But until that time, it's a whole lot of energy being expending sniping at each other that could be focused on more positive aspects of our hobby.ed

[Jure 36]

Ed,I can't say that I disagree... and see, I, too, am wasting energy by reading & contributing to this thread. I guess it's just that, blowing things out of proportion, that got me off balance; you are very right there. I know how much time it takes to design a quality add-on and when I see passions heating up and not-so-nice words flying around, well... Simming is a hobby and as such, it should provide enough for everybody. I will shut up now and go flying. :)Andrew!Long time, no "see"!! How's life up north? I bet it's nicer than in this oven over here with 30+ degrees all summer long. Regards,JureBush Flying Unlimited]"At home in the wild"[/i

[Guest Hagar]

Hi Jure,It`s rather tough here these days, hotter than ever and no wind, lot of new temperature records are registrated this summer. For once, I`m looking forward to the winter! Have shut down everything electrical, except from the computer off course, enjoying PMDG`s new bird, regardless of the "sad news" :) I see it`s tough summer in Europe too, worse than here I guess!Regards,