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Guest Anthony_D

Upgraded RAM - now fs2004 crashes!

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On most systems it gives difficulties odd behavior timing problems etc... believe me ;-)It depends on many factors not only a simple bios setting like cas and latency settings...Bios version, specs mobo, chipset etc....To avoid odd behavior / boot problems with nice beeps :-) / write errors / etc... choose the same speed.But maybe my 15 years of working IT experience fools me :(Andr


 

André
 

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:-lol John our network nodes has to be reset due to ram size lockups noway.... no problem with mixing ram size....Hmm.... maybe my own system with 512 / 256 / 256 DDR crucial 2.5 will have during this writing several lockups...I've read a lot on our forums but this statement is one for in the book odd one ;-) Andr


 

André
 

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Guest Anthony_D

>I see that, it's currently set to SPD. However the manual>doesn't elaborate as to what HCLK, HCLK+33 and HCLK+66 are. >I'll try what you recommend tonight.Got back home, and I've tried the above settings - was given the option of HCLK & HCLK+33 (with assistance from my PC vendor). I tried HCLK+33 and the ram on POST showed up as 333MHz. I then tried HCLK and POST showed the ram as being 266Mhz. So I tried fs2004, with Project Airbus and Mr Marciano's panel and it crashed to desktop.I've removed the two PC2100 RAM chips for now. Now I'm just running on one 512MB PC2700. So, I'll do some more research, but I think in the end I'll be selling the old chips and spending some more money on a new 512MB module - making sure it's PC2700!Thanks for the info guys.Anthony Dyer

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Guest White Hawk

Nice selective quoting there John. :-)

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Well, if I misunderstood you, I'm ready to apologize. I understood the message as meaning if I suggested mixing sizes was OK, I didn't know what the heck I was talking about. If that's not what you meant, I apologize...you did roll several issues into one sentence, so I imagine you were just hitting at the same issue the rest of us did--the mixing of the speeds.-John

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Guest White Hawk

Well, you were a bit harsh considering you cut what I said in half there, I did mention speeds too, now I'm the first to admit I don't know all there is to know on RAM, and I don't sell it for a living, but I was just telling him what I knew, don't smash a guy down for trying to help.But, I'm no too bothered, besides if I read it wrong myself I thought his first post said that he had been told what he had bought would work (I will have to look again), now as I said I don't sell the stuff, but I certianly wouldn't have told him it was fine I would have said it might work with different size's but its best to stick to the same, but as for different speed's I would not recomend that at all, now as I said there is a chance you could get it to work with changing the speed in the BIOS, but as far as I know not all MB's allow that, only some, others are fixed to what the CPU is running, again I will say I might be wrong on that but that's what I know from what I've garnered over the last 5 years of using and upgrading a PC, not a techy dude. :-)

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Guest whites

My current machine mixes PC3200 and PC2100 RAM (for the very short term) and runs fine. I have over the last 20 years run other machines with differenct models and speeds of RAM too (even in the days of 256k bit ICs) however it had to be done by RAM bank, that is, two or more slots had to have a matched set of RAM or it is GPF time or the machine won't even boot. I have also had boards where I couldn't mix at all. As far as I can tell current boards don't use banks anymore so that side might not be a problem but there still may be a hardware issue where the SPD setting is determined by the first DIMM then applied to all slots, that would cause problems if the faster RAM is in the SPD tested slot. This is a guess, I don't know how all the MB manufacturers make their boards but a couple of years ago I had a board that seemed to do this.As far as the proffesionals here saying that mixing speeds just will not work call me or others here liars as much as you like (why would we make it up?) but it is possible (though not necessarily all the time, as pointed out) if you know what your doing and you have the hardware and BIOS to support it.The best solution, obviously, is to use all the same speed, no point in slowing down your processor if you don't have to!

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It's not that we say mixing speeds will not work.... But experience shows that it likely won't. There's an exception to every rule. But, it's a longstanding rule of thumb and even if the HW and BIOS supported it, I wouldn't mandate it on my WAN. We've both seen good overclocked setups as well. But we've often heard of overclocked setups being unstable.... -John

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Guest Larry S

Having done more than 5 yrs tech support for a major software manufacturer ( I won't say who, but they are mentioned on this forum a lot) I also have some computer background.As to mixing ram speed, this is a direct quote from the faq for Crucial Technology, a division of Micron (a major maunfacturer of ram)Description: Can I mix 8ns and 7ns modules in my system? Solution: In general, you CAN mix different speeds of SDRAM memory in the same system. The faster memory will run at the slower memory's speed (in this case 8ns parts). However, there are some systems that will not correctly run this memory configuration. This is rare, but we suggest you contact your computer manufacturer or motherboard manual to be sure.The link to this is:http://support.crucial.com/scripts/crucial...%20ram%20speedsI beleive this is pretty much what I told Anthony, including my personal experience has been with older sdram, not ddr. I would not expect to have a problem with ddr either. Also note my suggestion to contact the manufacturer. Same answer for ddr, and still from Crucial Technologies:Description: Will PC2100 work with PC1600? Solution: Yes. However, if you have a system with both PC1600 and PC2100 modules in it, the system will work, but it will only run at a speed of PC1600. A system will only run at PC2100 if all the modules in it are PC2100 and the system supports PC2100. This is similar to mixing PC133 and P100 SDR SDRAM modules in a system.And that link is: http://support.crucial.com/scripts/crucial...x%20ram%20speedAs to mixing ram in different sizes, also a quote from the faq for Crucial Technology..Description: My computer came with 32MB of RAM. I added 32MB in the second slot. Can I add 64MB or more in the third slot, or do I have to remove the 32MB modules and put in all 64MB modules? Solution: Different sizes of SDRAM modules can be mixed together. In other words, you do not need to fill each memory slot with the same size module, and yes, you should be able to add a 64MB module to the existing open slot on your motherboard. Keep in mind, the largest module should always be placed in the first slot for best performance.The link is: http://support.crucial.com/scripts/crucial...ix%20ram%20sizeand:Description: Can you mix DDR modules of different sizes (in MB)? Solution: Yes! A module's size in megabytes is usually referred to as its "density." You can use DDR modules of different densities in the same system with no problem. For example, you could use one 32MB module, one 64MB module and one 128MB module if you like. To find the total memory in a system, you add together the memory on each module. In the example above, your total memory would be 32MB + 64MB + 128MB = 224MB.The link is:http://support.crucial.com/scripts/crucial...x%20ram%20speedWhite Hawk, you said:Well, if anyone told you that it's fine to use not only different speed DIMM's (sticks) of RAM but also different size's of DIMM's together and 98% of the time get away with it they don't know anything about RAM.I THINK the guys who MAKE the ram just said YOU don't know anything about ram.

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Anthony_D, Read your motherboard Book, each motherboard are **differents** for the Ram specialy for *DDR ram*. Each board type have his own procedure to respect.-You will have to respect the ram slot order in your board with your ram, There is always DIMM supports table to respect:Each company that's sold ram, have a compatibility in your motherboard for the RAM slot order:*Single Channel; specific order slot for each one*Dual Channel; specific order slot for each one-Use tested and qualified ram from MSI, there is a list from them, recommended for *stability* for most motherboard contains DDR ram type-In dual-channel configuration, Install *ONLY* identical (the same type and size DDR DIMM pairs for each channel)If you follow this you will not have problem! Ps: Mixing ram will works, but do not be surprised if your system is not stable anymore like before. It happend to me from earlier experience with different Board and Ram Type & size.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs


Kind Regards
Chris Willis

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Guest Larry S

Sorry my guess didn't work. The info I gave you regarding mixing size and speed is "essentially" correct. See my other reply. My solution (guess) to your problem may have been wrong, or you may have one of those boards thats the exception to the rule. 2700 is faster ram, faster is better, so my first suggestion, dump the 2100, is still your best bet.As to the upgrade you asked about, since I still have the manual, it says by default your board (bios)tops at 1.8 ghz, the xp 2200.The next step is go to msi's web site. Click on mainboards at upper right (just above 865pe neo2), next page, click archives. Go to the socket a section and click on your board. Now on the right click bios, and any updates will list, newest at top. Version 5.1 says it will support the barton xp3000. Read the special note, then confirm what I see in the manual, you do have the kt333 chipset. When YOU feel confident, you can dowload and run 6380ev57.exe to update the bios. Don't assume I'm right here, double and triple check everything. As I said before, I don't know your board, I'm just showing you what I found. As I see it, with the bios update, yes, you can do the xp3000.Forgive me if I oversimplified that, just wanted you to end up where I did.If you plan on doing it yourself, e-mail MSI and ask if we read it correctly, and more important, WHAT ELSE? any other changes, modifications, etc? If you plan on having it done, confirm what we see with your local computer guy, and ask the same question.As a side note, look in your manual on page 1-9, you should have a utility that is, or can be installed, to update the bios, among other things. Probably a better way to do it, it should find the correct and newest version. Also on page 1-8 is utility called fuzzy logic to setup or overclock your cpu. That may be usefull, and may need to be updated if you update the bios.

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John I agree again the best advice is to avoid strange behaviors go for the same speed it makes the PC experience a lot easier...As we saying most of the times it gives difficulties and unstable systems, or even worse it just won't work :(Andr


 

André
 

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Guest Anthony_D

>Sorry my guess didn't work. Not to worry, I'm an experimentalist at heart :-)> so my first suggestion, dump the 2100, is still your best bet.Done. Well, at least I placed an ad on my companies intranet site and got a buyer 20mins later (and had to turn down 3 interested buyers after that!) so the proceeds from that sale should help towards a new memory module.>As to the upgrade you asked about, since I still have the>manual, it says by default your board (bios)tops at 1.8 ghz,>the xp 2200.Yes that's correct, though the revision date for the manual is June 2002 - so later XP's may not have been around then. >Version 5.1 says it will support the barton xp3000.>Read the special note, then confirm what I see in the manual,>you do have the kt333 chipset. Good stuff! Though reading AMD's website I was under the impression that the XP2600+ was the fastest my motherboard could support. The manual says it's a 266Mhz FSB and AMD's website says that the XP3000+ needs a 333Mhz FSB, though the motherboard is based on the VIA kt333 chipset - confusing.Anyway, it means at least that I don't have to add a new motherboard to my shopping list yet. Hopefully that'll happen when the Athlon 64's are properly established in the market place.>When YOU feel confident, you>can dowload and run 6380ev57.exe to update the bios. >If you plan on doing it yourself, e-mail MSI and ask if we>read it correctly, and more important, WHAT ELSE? I'm getting more confident. I'm backing up all my work, fs200x downloads and emails beforehand - and creating boot/rescue disks and doing more reading. So I'll try it, later. Worst case scenario is that I dig out my old Celeron 333 for my email. Can't believe the amount of downloads I've done over 6 months on a 56k modem - over 1GB!!Thanks for your help Larry :-) Right then, I shall now be off walking this weekend - back to fs2004 (and work :-() on Monday.Anthony Dyer

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