Developers who still use multiple vcockpit entries (iFly)

[TheBFG 1]

O.K. I looked at this thinking something didn't sound right. First off the iFly panel.cfg file only contains '3' VC cockpit entries not '4'. None of the gauges repeat themselves in the various sections. I know what the original poster is talking about but this is not the case here. Yes they could drop the sections down to two but when gauges aren't repeating themselves there is no instance of a gauge loading 4x in one session. The reason the various sections is done this way is you can have a lower resolution in one section of the VC that's less critical than another. You can have the best resolution in the area where the PFD and ND screens reside. I'm not buying this when it comes to this bird but like I said I understand the point. Some developers are clueless on this and others are doing this for a reason to actually increase VC performance not take away from it... :(

Ok upon investigation I was sent the panel.cfg from a model with the HUD, which adds a 4th VC entry. Thing is, even 3 is too many for me. I don't know how people fly IFR with gauges that update only every third time the scenery outside the window updates.The above post is a bit confusing though, as this is indeed the case here, it can't not be, it's a rule of FS. Frame Rate / Vcockpit entries = VC gauge frame rate. Go ahead, try it out, take all of them out except one. You'll only have a few gauges with they'll run super smooth.There is no way that adding vcockpit sections can or has ever improved performance. I understand what you're saying about the textures but what's the point in gaining 1fps from a smaller texture and then sacrificing 10 by adding another vcockpit section? That argument just doesn't work at all. Can you clarify what you mean by gauges loading "4x in a session"? I'm probably confused but there's no need to ever load a gauge over and over? This problem is something else completely.Have a look at the PMDG 747 panel.cfg. One entry, and the smoothest VC gauges anywhere. Like I said even with the PMDG 737, you can turn off the overhead panel and use the popup instead, making it 2 vc sections = flyable. I do know though that with all 3 in there, it becomes a chore just to roll out smoothly after a turn in IFR conditions because the stupid gauges only show you what's going on every year.You can't take out any of the sections in the iFly version as they all contain something critical, and if you're flying with a HUD model, you'll be seeing gauges going at about 5fps. I just don't see the point, or how developers (and customers for that matter), put up with these plainly unflyable VCs. I've seen a few real gems too, freeware addons with 20 vcockpit sections. Clearly nobody who made those addons ever bothered to actually try flying it from the VC.

[TheBFG 1]

So i would be able to lower the resolution on one section of the vc to acheive better performance?? How is this done?ThanksIm so confused now while deciding to make the purchase now or wait.

Nope. This *might* squeeze about half a frame per second out of the sim, but does nothing to the gauges fps at all. Changing res is something you do to bump up the overall fps of the sim by a tiny bit. The gauges will still only refresh at a third of whatever the main sim fps is. I'd say it's not worth even trying to do such a thing, it will make very very little difference and the visual difference is probably not worth it :(By all means buy it and experiment, by all accounts it will otherwise be a great aircraft once the niggles are sorted out. Personally I just can't stand slow and/or jerky gauges. Maybe this is what happens when you fly real aeroplanes, I shudder at the default FS9 steam gauges, RealityXP a really excited user :) The QUALITY of the iFly project seems right up there, but slow vc gauges stop the show.

[Dillon 2,197]

Ok upon investigation I was sent the panel.cfg from a model with the HUD, which adds a 4th VC entry. Thing is, even 3 is too many for me. I don't know how people fly IFR with gauges that update only every third time the scenery outside the window updates.The above post is a bit confusing though, as this is indeed the case here, it can't not be, it's a rule of FS. Frame Rate / Vcockpit entries = VC gauge frame rate. Go ahead, try it out, take all of them out except one. You'll only have a few gauges with they'll run super smooth.There is no way that adding vcockpit sections can or has ever improved performance. I understand what you're saying about the textures but what's the point in gaining 1fps from a smaller texture and then sacrificing 10 by adding another vcockpit section? That argument just doesn't work at all. Can you clarify what you mean by gauges loading "4x in a session"? I'm probably confused but there's no need to ever load a gauge over and over? This problem is something else completely.Have a look at the PMDG 747 panel.cfg. One entry, and the smoothest VC gauges anywhere. Like I said even with the PMDG 737, you can turn off the overhead panel and use the popup instead, making it 2 vc sections = flyable. I do know though that with all 3 in there, it becomes a chore just to roll out smoothly after a turn in IFR conditions because the stupid gauges only show you what's going on every year.You can't take out any of the sections in the iFly version as they all contain something critical, and if you're flying with a HUD model, you'll be seeing gauges going at about 5fps. I just don't see the point, or how developers (and customers for that matter), put up with these plainly unflyable VCs. I've seen a few real gems too, freeware addons with 20 vcockpit sections. Clearly nobody who made those addons ever bothered to actually try flying it from the VC.

This sounds like you've wrote this aircraft off without even trying on your system. You can't look at the panel.cfg file and assume you know how it performs in the sim. The gauges are as fluid as any other add-on like PMDG's MD11. There is no degradation in gauge performance with the iFly 737NG. I suggest you try it before you come in here and knock it. You had me going for a minute there until I looked at things myself as I own the product.Once again there is no repeat entries in the panel.cfg file to cause multiple loading of the gauges, that's just false. Second multiple VC entries doesn't automatically equate to slow gauge performance. You'll only find that with what I wrote above. I'm going to flag this because your spreading untruths in the forum that could ultimately hurt sales for this excellent add-on in an already fragile FS9 market. Until you buy it and try it out for yourself you can't come in here speaking on a product you really know nothing about... :(

[TheBFG 1]

The gauges are as fluid as any other add-on like PMDG's MD11.

Not true. I have now seen it in action at said friend's house over the weekend. The VC gauges are slow. His MD-11 is fine. Reduce the vcockpit entries and voila. The aircraft is otherwise very very nice I must say.

Once again there is no repeat entries in the panel.cfg file to cause multiple loading of the gauges, that's just false.

When have I ever said anything about "multiple loading of gauges"? You're the only one going on about this and I don't know what you mean. There is no multiple loading of gauges, not here or anywhere. What repeat entries in the panel.cfg?

Second multiple VC entries doesn't automatically equate to slow gauge performance.

Yes it does, as per the equation above. Fact.

I'm going to flag this because your spreading untruths in the forum

If we're going to be flagging threads for untruths then this one probably should be flagged, thanks to your statements above.

Until you buy it and try it out for yourself you can't come in here speaking on a product you really know nothing about

Yes I can. It's a relatively expensive addon, one which I've now witnessed in action and am glad I did not purchase yet. These things could of course be ironed out in future and I hope they are because it is otherwise great.Just trying to help anyway. People who don't like slow refresh rates in their VC gauges won't like this setup. I couldn't live with those gauges, and people are complaining on other forums too. There's nothing wrong with discussing a new product and only harping on about something's good points is hardly fair to anyone who may be reading. If something irritates me then perhaps it will irritate others too and they should know about it. This is a real issue, not just with this product but many others, no point trying to sweep it under the carpet.

[TheBFG 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3jNJt8xSUc

Watch the PFD on short final. The altitude tape jerk-updates soooo slowly. I could not live with that :(Hope they can fix it somehow.

[Dillon 2,197]

Watch the PFD on short final. The altitude tape jerk-updates soooo slowly. I could not live with that :(Hope they can fix it somehow.

Mine doesn't perform like that. Have you purchased the Ariane model? Now that's terrible gauge performance (the FS9 version that is).

[TheBFG 1]

May I ask what you lock your frame rate to? I think most people will be in the 20-30 range, which will result in the gauges behaving like in the video. You'd probably have to be running at 45-60 fps to get them smooth, which is impossible for most.And no, I didn't buy the Ariane version for the same reason :) That one is truly unflyable. Pity, because the vc LOOKS absolutely amazing in the Ariane version.I hope iFly can do something here, the rest of it is so delicious that I would love to have it.

[n4gix 4,947]

Yes it does, as per the equation above. Fact.

I have no idea where you got your "fact" from, but it most certainly is not true. I've spent most of the past decade plus doing professional modeling and gauge programming for FS.While it is true that poorly designed VC's will result in subpar performance, the actual cause is quite different from that which you have conjectured:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/294589-question-re-vc-gauge-refresh-rate/

[tgibson 11]

I have no idea where you got your "fact" from, but it most certainly is not true. I've spent most of the past decade plus doing professional modeling and gauge programming for FS.While it is true that poorly designed VC's will result in subpar performance, the actual cause is quite different from that which you have conjectured:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/294589-question-re-vc-gauge-refresh-rate/

All I know is that I took a VC with 9 VCockpit sections that ran incredibly jerkily, converted it to use 2 sections but added MORE gauges, and now it runs nice and smooth. Because I am limited to 2 1024 x 1024 textures the gauge resolution is a bit less than before, but not bad.

[Guest Aviator999]

Don't write off this great aircraft without first trying it. Remember you have a 30 day money back, no questions asked guarantee. Level D has 3 VC entries and I never noticed any issue with it. A lot of people also run their sims over 40 fps these days as well. That's the great thing about running FS9. What I would like to know is where he got this information? I noticed a lot of mention of PMDG in there. Is he out to push the NGX on us and at the same time push us toward FSX which PMDG caters to exclusively with their new addons? I haven't bought it yet as I always read up on things before purchases. I think I now will go to Flight One and buy it to make my own determination on weather this has any truth to it. Can't lose.Regards, Carlos

[flightwatch 68]

Why do developers still do this? PMDG's newer products ........In the PMDG 737 they use 3........and fly there with my PMDG 737 with its gauges that update more than once a day.........Have a look at the PMDG 747 panel.cfg.

PMDG this...PMDG that....blah blah blah. I am so sick and tired of hearing the a really excited user talk about how PMDG did this and that right, and how every other developer can't even come close. Remember. PMDG abandoned fs9 and it's users. Not the other way around.Bottom line. If you haven't bought it and tried it on YOUR computer, don't come on a public forum and bash it. Irregardless, I smell troll and I have also flagged this thread.

[TheBFG 1]

What I would like to know is where he got this information? I noticed a lot of mention of PMDG in there. Is he out to push the NGX on us and at the same time push us toward FSX which PMDG caters to exclusively with their new addons?

I have no affiliation to PMDG whatsoever. Nor do I even have FSX installed. I only fly FS9. The PMDG aircraft were mentioned because they are a good reference. It's so typical of these public forums of people to run away with their imaginations isn't it? Yes I'm out to push the NGX on you, something I won't even be buying. Well done. I mentioned several times that the iFly aircraft is fabulous except for this VC issue, which is something that bothers me and I have every right to discuss it.

PMDG this...PMDG that....blah blah blah. I am so sick and tired of hearing the a really excited user talk about how PMDG did this and that right, and how every other developer can't even come close. Remember. PMDG abandoned fs9 and it's users. Not the other way around.Bottom line. If you haven't bought it and tried it on YOUR computer, don't come on a public forum and bash it. Irregardless, I smell troll and I have also flagged this thread.

Well done to you too. Geez guys thanks for the welcome.Please read carefully cohort.I'm not a PMDG "a really excited user". It was mentioned several times, as stated above, because it is a good reference available to me. What did you want me to call it? The other 737? The unmentionable 737? Please.And WHEN did I say that "other developers can't even get close"?????? On the contrary I mentioned how good the iFly aircraft looks. You know what I'm sick and tired of? Forum morons who don't read posts properly before slagging off the poster about something they THINK they read.Do you two go round flagging any thread that has the letters "PMDG" in them? Because that's about the most "evil" thing I can see here. Why would I even be here if I didn't see the iFly aircraft as a possible, better, replacement for the PMDG version which is in many ways (for the year 2010) flawed.If anything it sounds like you guys are pushing the iFly aircraft onto us, and yet accusing me of doing so with the PMDG aircraft that I have no interest in. :rolleyes:By all means lets discuss, but clearly this is not something you're interested in.For the record I got the info from a gauge designer and it made perfect sense to me, as removing vc entries had a dramatic improvement in performance. Also the fact that the PMDG (SHOOT ME cohort) 747 has only one entry and the gauges are fluid meant that his theory held up. If I am mistaken then I humbly apologise but it's still clear additional entries have a big negative impact.

[TheBFG 1]

I have no idea where you got your "fact" from, but it most certainly is not true. I've spent most of the past decade plus doing professional modeling and gauge programming for FS.While it is true that poorly designed VC's will result in subpar performance, the actual cause is quite different from that which you have conjectured:http://forum.avsim.n...e-refresh-rate/

Hi n4gixThanks for the reply. I'm very interested in learning more about this, is there some more reading to be done about it?

[Dillon 2,197]

All that garble aside I'm having a blast with what I think is one of the best airliner simulations we've ever had in FS. The VC looks exactly like the real thing and the gauges run very good on my system.'TheBFG' I'm going to give you a tidbit of info here that may help you. Notice the specs on my machine. Any setup around or better than what I have it's best to run FS9 with a target framerate of 90. You really hinder performance using the old tweak method of 20-30. I run mine at 90 and get an all but fluid experience. Maybe you should try that and give this outstanding effort a try. :(

[twasono 3]

I have no idea where you got your "fact" from, but it most certainly is not true. I've spent most of the past decade plus doing professional modeling and gauge programming for FS.While it is true that poorly designed VC's will result in subpar performance, the actual cause is quite different from that which you have conjectured:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/294589-question-re-vc-gauge-refresh-rate/

Yes, I agree. The "vcockpit" section is only intended for grouping the gauges.The FPS is mostly affected by the way of programming the gauges. (eg. what kind of algorithm or technology they used for drawing the curve, etc.)If you (TheBFG) could elaborate the source, may be it will make the conclusion clearer.Best Regards.