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Geofa

John and Martha just got handcuffed!

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33bl5sk.jpgYou would think they would check at least the kind of aircraft it is first. <sarcasm> This will end well for that PD. </sarcasm>

Peter Clemenko III
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EPIC FAIL!One could at least hope that the Santa Barbara PD have learned a lesson from this rediculous comedy of errors...Did the fools from SBPD even offer the courtesy of an apology?


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There was a TFR in effect around SBA and John and Martha violated it.They should have known Oprah was in town...

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EPIC FAIL!One could at least hope that the Santa Barbara PD have learned a lesson from this rediculous comedy of errors...Did the fools from SBPD even offer the courtesy of an apology?
I personally find the term "Epic Fail" to be overused in recent times, however I agree with you, this falls under that category.

Peter Clemenko III
Former AVSIM Staff Reviewer
All posts on the fourm are my own, and not representative of AVSIM.

PFE Expansion voice actor

"Solving new problems is what keeps us moving forward as individuals and as a society, so don't back down." Garry Kasparov
I do what I believe is right, not what is popular.

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EPIC FAIL!One could at least hope that the Santa Barbara PD have learned a lesson from this rediculous comedy of errors...Did the fools from SBPD even offer the courtesy of an apology?
"Fools from SBPD"???In what way were they "fools"? Seems to me they acted appropriately given what they were asked to do by the El Paso Intelligence Center.Also seems to me the fault lies with (that Branch of) the FAA for issuing an N-Number that previously "belonged" to a stolen aircraft. That seems bone-headed to me.One could say even more blame could be assigned to "Cessna" and employee Jim Pitman for not ensuring this type of incident didn't occur again. King Incident The Second Case Of Mistaken Identity If you need someone to call names or vent on... seems this individual makes a good target.I can tell you as CFI & A&P w/ two Degrees in Aviation and having worked several years in Law Enforcement... never in a gazillion years would it have occurred to me to check the FAA N-Number Database... I had no idea the FAA "recycles" them. Even if it had occurred to me to check the Database... absolutely no freakin way would I countermand Dispatch and say... "oh um Control guess what?... I just checked the FAA N-Number Database and the N-Number is kosher. We can all go home now!" It doesn't specify anything about "N50545" ever having been stolen.Even if it had... and was listed that way in the Deregistered Section for that C150... an Officer is still going to want to see the Aircraft Registration and sort through that mess. Maybe they handle it a bit less aggressively... more like a traffic stop, but I doubt it. You see those 5 big numbers matching the reported stolen aircraft number... better to risk injury someone's feelings and go home that night to your family, than treat it like we're in Mayberry and end up dead on the tarmac. Going into a situation like that… You Don’t Know What Will Happen. "Complacency Kills".So... you get a request from the DEA / FAA to stop / detain a reported stolen vehicle: you do a "Felony Stop." Seems totally reasonable for the SBPD to do what they did given the circumstances reported in "the press". So why apologize? I mean... of course I would be sorry they had to endure such a stressful situation... I never got a warm fuzzy myself when executing a Felony Stop. It's not pleasant for either side. (except the gratification for pulling a Felon off the street :( ) But sorry for "doing my job"? I don't think so…

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1 - I don't fly.2 - I don't have a plane.3 - I don't have a pilot's license.4 - I am not a CFI, CPA, CIA, FBI, etc.I do know that the FAA recycles aircraft registrations, have known for years. So, how is it I know something that apparently those in 'the industry' don't? How is this considered acceptable??As for 'why apologize?' Simply put: it's the right thing to do.Pointing a loaded weapon at someone is using deadly force. When the use of deadly force is unwarranted, an apology is the least that should be offered.


Ed Wilson

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"Fools from SBPD"???In what way were they "fools"? Seems to me they acted appropriately given what they were asked to do by the El Paso Intelligence Center.Also seems to me the fault lies with (that Branch of) the FAA for issuing an N-Number that previously "belonged" to a stolen aircraft. That seems bone-headed to me.One could say even more blame could be assigned to "Cessna" and employee Jim Pitman for not ensuring this type of incident didn't occur again. King Incident The Second Case Of Mistaken Identity If you need someone to call names or vent on... seems this individual makes a good target.I can tell you as CFI & A&P w/ two Degrees in Aviation and having worked several years in Law Enforcement... never in a gazillion years would it have occurred to me to check the FAA N-Number Database... I had no idea the FAA "recycles" them. Even if it had occurred to me to check the Database... absolutely no freakin way would I countermand Dispatch and say... "oh um Control guess what?... I just checked the FAA N-Number Database and the N-Number is kosher. We can all go home now!" It doesn't specify anything about "N50545" ever having been stolen.Even if it had... and was listed that way in the Deregistered Section for that C150... an Officer is still going to want to see the Aircraft Registration and sort through that mess. Maybe they handle it a bit less aggressively... more like a traffic stop, but I doubt it. You see those 5 big numbers matching the reported stolen aircraft number... better to risk injury someone's feelings and go home that night to your family, than treat it like we're in Mayberry and end up dead on the tarmac. Going into a situation like that… You Don’t Know What Will Happen. "Complacency Kills".So... you get a request from the DEA / FAA to stop / detain a reported stolen vehicle: you do a "Felony Stop." Seems totally reasonable for the SBPD to do what they did given the circumstances reported in "the press". So why apologize? I mean... of course I would be sorry they had to endure such a stressful situation... I never got a warm fuzzy myself when executing a Felony Stop. It's not pleasant for either side. (except the gratification for pulling a Felon off the street :( ) But sorry for "doing my job"? I don't think so…
I have to agree, with the information the SBPD had, their actions were appropriate! This was a suspected felony. No different then when cops stop a suspected stolen car! The fault here lies with the FAA for recycling reg numbers for an aircraft that was stolen, and unaccounted for!

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1 - I don't fly.2 - I don't have a plane.3 - I don't have a pilot's license.4 - I am not a CFI, CPA, CIA, FBI, etc.I do know that the FAA recycles aircraft registrations, have known for years.  So, how is it I know something that apparently those in 'the industry' don't?  How is this considered acceptable??As for 'why apologize?'  Simply put: it's the right thing to do.Pointing a loaded weapon at someone is using deadly force.  When the use of deadly force is unwarranted, an apology is the least that should be offered.
I agree. I learned that early on in my FS career due to me looking up N numbers while checking out planes via Airliners.net or seeing planes on the news. I would often look up aircraft and see that the numbers did not match the what the current registration said the plane was. If Ed or I can do this, why cannot LEO or agencies working for the Feds find this out? I know more often than not, POs have laptops in their cars, often with internet of some sort and anyone can view the FAA website. Command and dispatch should both be looking up said numbers to double check that said plane is actually stolen. They do this with cars, they can do it with aircraft.I feel sorry for the Kings as this should never have happened, especially with the same plane not once, but twice.

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Pointing a loaded weapon at someone is using deadly force.
No it is not... not from a Law Enforcement point of view.That is why one practices over and over again... certainly on a yearly basis... "Shoot / No Shoot" scenarios. You do not go into a potentially high-risk situation like a Felony Stop (as the Kings were involved in and had to endure) w/o your firearm drawn. Period.
do know that the FAA recycles aircraft registrations, have known for years. So, how is it I know something that apparently those in 'the industry' don't?
Probably from osmosis if your "playland" is I69 - Clermont Co. (Hal Shevers / Sporty's Pilot Shop). :Just Kidding:Edit: btw I feel sorry for the Kings too... I know (in a general sense) it was a very traumatic incident... poor people. :(

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No it is not... not from a Law Enforcement point of view.
Well, unfortunately I disagree with the 'point of view' and wouldn't take too kindly to having guns pointed at myself and/or my family. To be honest, I would not be nearly as gracious as the Kings are being at this time.
That is why one practices over and over again... certainly on a yearly basis... "Shoot / No Shoot" scenarios. You do not go into a potentially high-risk situation like a Felony Stop (as the Kings were involved in and had to endure) w/o your firearm drawn. Period.
While it was treated as a felony stop, in fact it was a completely blown process from the get-go. Not one person confirmed the information before acting on it. It's like executing a no-knock warrant on the wrong street address because you didn't take the time to confirm the house had the correct number on it.Wearing a badge doesn't relieve one of the obligation of being morally and ethically right... even if you're 'legally' right. A prime issue we currently have in this country, unfortunately, in many aspects of our 'legal' society.

Ed Wilson

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Guest simmer9304

John still won't let me pass my lessons in FS9.

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Well, unfortunately I disagree with the 'point of view' and wouldn't take too kindly to having guns pointed at myself and/or my family.  To be honest, I would not be nearly as gracious as the Kings are being at this time.While it was treated as a felony stop, in fact it was a completely blown process from the get-go.  Not one person confirmed the information before acting on it.  It's like executing a no-knock warrant on the wrong street address because you didn't take the time to confirm the house had the correct number on it.Wearing a badge doesn't relieve one of the obligation of being morally and ethically right... even if you're 'legally' right.  A prime issue we currently have in this country, unfortunately, in many aspects of our 'legal' society.
The city of Atlanta recently settled for $4.9 million due to a botched no-knock drug raid where the police killed an innocent elderly woman due to not verifying the address on the warrant. There were also other circumstances involved, but this is a glaring example of exactly what you  are saying. I expect PDs to dot their i's and cross their t's and the King incident just shows that no one involved did it. It is one thing to do a felony stop on a car that was reported stolen the day before, but on an 8 year old complaint, double and triple checking should have taken place, before weapons had to be drawn. If checked, there would have been no felony stop with weapons pointed at unarmed aviators.

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John still won't let me pass my lessons in FS9.
I think that is Rod-not John...

Geofa

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I think that is Rod-not John...
It's not even Rod, It's some lady that Rod hands you off to for your checkride.Maybe it was Martha?

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