Looking for some light balls

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Fellows,I am using Instant Scenery for object placement and I am in need of some balls of light like point lights that I can use to place around airports, roads, etc. Unfortunatley, all I can seem to find in my existing library and in the Avsim library are objects of light poles, some of which have attached beams of light. However, these are really what I need. All I am needing is a ball of light that is white and maybe a red ball also. It doesn't need to have an attached halo effect that actually projects light on the ground.The closest I have been able to get to what I need is what I did in the pics below. I took an object in my scenery library that was a light pole with a few lights attached to in, then using the scale function in Instant Scenery I reduced the scale to the smallest, which basically eliminated the pole part of the light and just left me with a glowing orb which is what I am looking for. However, in doing so it seems that using this method doesn't agree with either FSX or Instant Scenery because after I place a few of these balls, the light seems to die down and I cant get it to light up again without actually rebooting my computer and restarting FSX. Once I do that and open a new flight I can scale down the object I was using and start placing it again, but after a few minutes the light orb that I made goes away. I am guess that FSX has a hard time trying to render an object that has been collapsed.Here are a couple of screen shots of what I have already done and what the balls of light I am wanting.As you can see in this shot I have attached one of the light balls to a pole that didn't have a light. I am wanting to place the balls in other places as well just by themselves.Here's two shots from above and one from a distance. They show up from a good distance as well as you can see from this shot.Basically what I need is these balls to be in a bgl format that I can add to my library. As far as I know they dont need to have any effects attached to them, just a ball of white and a ball of red light that I can place using Instant Scenery and that I can scale using the program to make them either bigger or smaller.If anyone knows where I could find something like this I would really appreciate it since I have scoured the net looking. If anyone would be willing to make me two of these objects in red and white I would be willing to even compensate you with money if thats what it takes.Thanks in advance for the help.Regards,Sean

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Don't everyone speak at once, lol.

[meshman 109]

Don't everyone speak at once, lol.

Sean, until you explain what happen to your original avatar...If, and it's a BIG if, I were to attempt what you want I would be using effects. Looking at you screenies, the lighting is consistent, despite the distances involved. Going and using effects would allow a distance based on/off. But I would probably have multiple effects showing multiple distances, so that the closer you got the more would show/illuminate.If Gmax were being used, a simple transparent box with an attached effect compiled to a MDL for IS use would work. Too bad I don't have Gmax installed, especially since I don't know how to make it do anything!So there's a response! Not what you were looking for, sorry!

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

There is an effects tool in FS, very easy to use, load any default effect, modify it in real time while seeing any changes, then save it. It can then be placed in a library, or a dummy object with effect attached can be created. Then, it can be placed anywhere, even as a line of objects using something like SBuilderX.Warning: a great number of effects will seriously impact performance.Best regards.Luis

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Sean, until you explain what happen to your original avatar...

Not sure which avatar your refering to since I have had so many and change them frequently. I dont even remember which avatar is the very first one I ever used frankly, lol.Thanks for the response however, I didn't know that an effect had to be used for what I was looking for.

There is an effects tool in FS, very easy to use, load any default effect, modify it in real time while seeing any changes, then save it. It can then be placed in a library, or a dummy object with effect attached can be created. Then, it can be placed anywhere, even as a line of objects using something like SBuilderX.Warning: a great number of effects will seriously impact performance.Best regards.Luis

Thanks for the info Luis I didn't know that. I do have the SDK installed for using SbuilderX and also ADE. I didn't know that what I wanted to do was so simple, in fact is it as easy as you make it sound or do I need a tutorial on it?While I wait for a response, I will boot FSX, then open the effects tool and see if I can figure it out. If I can I will reply back saying so, or if I can I will post back with questions i'm sure.Thanks - Sean

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Ok, I have figured out how to use the effects tool a little bit.What I did was start FSX, go to an airport, open the Effects Tool, then open a effect and resave it as seanstreetlight.fx to my desktop.Now what I need to know is how do I turn that .fx file into a bgl so that I can add it to a library? I noticed that in another object library everything is in a bgl format. What I want to be able to do is use it as an object I can place with Instant Scenery, but Instant Scenery wont let you place effects, so I am guessing I need to turn it into an object/bgl some how?Thanks for the help so far, I had no idea about the Effects tool in FSX.

[meshman 109]

Instant Scenery has no method to place an effect. Absent making an object with an attached effect (your new work) you can either place the effect manually or try using SBuilderX. Working manually sounds like a pain, but once you have the XML set up for the first location, compiled and tested in FSX, then the rest of the locations is just adjusting Lat/Lon.I placed some windmills on Maui and The Big Island. I also wanted warning lights on the top, for which I made some effect files. Using IS I placed a dummy object where I needed the coordinates, took the BGL file and decompiled to XML and did a cut and paste for the coordinate information. With the effect you made there will be "parameters" that dictate when it shows and when it doesn't show. Any XML will need to include the proper parameters and the proper structure for the parameters. Otherwise, it'll barf on you. I can find a sample if you're interested.And the avatar? You never mentioned "her" name, best I can recall... But I understand why you replaced it with something else, what with all the various comments you were getting.

[GaryGB 10]

Ok, I have figured out how to use the effects tool a little bit.What I did was start FSX, go to an airport, open the Effects Tool, then open a effect and resave it as seanstreetlight.fx to my desktop.Now what I need to know is how do I turn that .fx file into a bgl so that I can add it to a library? I noticed that in another object library everything is in a bgl format. What I want to be able to do is use it as an object I can place with Instant Scenery, but Instant Scenery wont let you place effects, so I am guessing I need to turn it into an object/bgl some how?Thanks for the help so far, I had no idea about the Effects tool in FSX.

Hi Sean:Since you don't seem to be concerned about a visible support for the "light balls", and IIUC you want to place a number of them at user-determined intervals along vector lines, you might find it much easier to do this using a special feature of Don Grovestine's excellent "FenceBuilder Pro" (aka "FBP") published via FSAddon:http://secure.simmarket.com/fsaddon-fencebuilder-pro.phtmlhttp://fsaddon.eu/wpfsaddon/?page_id=15http://forums.fsaddon.eu/viewforum.php?f=41FBP allows placement of Effects with a number user-determined parameters, and provides a number of controls and conveniences for the scenery developer when placing default or custom made Effects.There is a free FBP demo available to try out (IIRC, it includes the detailed manual): http://online.simmarket.com/1/FenceBuilderPro-demo.exeTo place Effects via an object placer (rather than via the "XML placement method" which one can do using NotePad and FSX SDK BGLComp), one must associate an "Effect" with a visible (textured) or hidden (un-textured) 3D object created/exported in GMAX, using the "AttachPoint" script/tool; this is then exported to a MDL.BTW: When Effects are associated with a MDL, there are more limitations to control of how the Effect will be displayed (particularly as to the distance at which it will be displayed... which IIRC was one concern you are already encountering).FYI: Generally speaking, one is able to control Effect display more thoroughly when simply placing them via the "XML method" in NotePad or other text / XML editor, then just compile the output XML placement file via BGLComp to create a BGL placement file.In either case, "scaling" of "light ball" Effect size itself must be done inside the Effect *.FX file, as I don't recall seeing any of these types that scale via the XML placement "scalar" setting when attached to a MDL inside a FS scenery object library.(Effect "light balls" are not to be confused with BGL lights or Taxi light objects, which, IIUC are a special type of 3D MDL object with special emissive textures etc.)SEE: [FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Special Effects SDK\Creating Special Effects.html regarding Effect trigger, time of day, duration, and related display distance control parametersAnyway, regarding the "attached" effect method: Once the object with attached Effect is exported into a MDL file, you can use Arno's "Library Creator XML" to put your MDL(s) into a FS compatible scenery object library BGL that is usable via Instant Scenery or other XML object placer utilities:http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=8 (Info)http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=8&act=down (Download)http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Library_Creator_XML_2.0 (Manual)I suspect, however, from what you've described above, you might save a lot of work by using FBP with Effect placement via the "XML method".But note that FBP can also control placement of multiple FS scenery library objects along vector Lines (or even in Rows) with multiple parameters, so it could assist you with "MDL-Attached Effects" as well !. :( NOTE: Be sure all custom effects observe FS default naming conventions, and are ultimately placed into [FS install path]\Effects (and any associated Effect texture files should be placed into [FS install path]\Effects\Texture) before FSX is started, as FS must know about them before loading, or they will not be displayed (even if the placement BGL is "active" in the scenery library).As Luis points out above, depending on what internal parameters/characteristics one assigns to an effect in its *.FX file when it is to be displayed, there can indeed be a performance hit in FS.TIP: Simple, static balls of light (these can actually just be flat/planar gradient-textured vector circles which "rotate to aircraft viewpoint" in any axial or tangential direction relative to the central reference point of the Effect object) may have such little impact that hundreds or even thousands of them might be displayable within a scenery without a performance hit... assuming a reasonable LOD visual display radius slider setting is used.Oh, and one more entire subject unto itself is the quirks of Instant Scenery (aka "IS"... a fabulously powerful, and IMHO "must-have" utility regardless of quirks), and IS' "management" of scenery object placement BGLs you create with it; here's some caveats for controlling scenery object display with IS scenery projects:http://forums.fsaddon.eu/viewtopic.php?t=2907Hope this info helps ! :( GaryGB

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Instant Scenery has no method to place an effect. Absent making an object with an attached effect (your new work) you can either place the effect manually or try using SBuilderX. Working manually sounds like a pain, but once you have the XML set up for the first location, compiled and tested in FSX, then the rest of the locations is just adjusting Lat/Lon.I placed some windmills on Maui and The Big Island. I also wanted warning lights on the top, for which I made some effect files. Using IS I placed a dummy object where I needed the coordinates, took the BGL file and decompiled to XML and did a cut and paste for the coordinate information. With the effect you made there will be "parameters" that dictate when it shows and when it doesn't show. Any XML will need to include the proper parameters and the proper structure for the parameters. Otherwise, it'll barf on you. I can find a sample if you're interested.And the avatar? You never mentioned "her" name, best I can recall... But I understand why you replaced it with something else, what with all the various comments you were getting.

Ok, now I remember. Your talking about the avatar of my girlfriend I had a long time ago. Yeah, I was getting to many PM's from guys thinking I was the girl in the pic. One guy even got banned because of something he posted in a screen shot thread I started about some things he wanted to do to her sexually. Then there was another guy who kept PM'ing me wanted to see pictures of her feet of all things and kept telling me he wanted to suck her toes, lol. I like to have avatars based on things I like, like the one of my gf, then I had one of a Titileist golf ball since I golf, etc. I will never put one of a girl again thats for sure :-)As far as what you said about placing the effect, I guess I will need to attach it to an object somehow. Frankly, I thought this would be rather easy to just get a simple ball of light that I can place but its a lot more involved that what I imagined.

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

TIP: Simple, static balls of light (these can actually just be flat/planar gradient-textured vector circles which "rotate to aircraft viewpoint" in any axial or tangential direction relative to the central reference point of the Effect object) may have such little impact that hundreds or even thousands of them might be displayable within a scenery without a performance hit... assuming a reasonable LOD visual display radius slider setting is used.

Hi Gary. Thanks for the lengthy explanation.I had though about Fence Builder but I think at the moment its a bit more than what I really need.Now as far as what you mentioned how could I go about getting some of the "flat/planar gradient-textured vector circles which "rotate to aircraft viewpoint" in any axial or tangential direction relative to the central reference point of the Effect object"? I think that is exactly what I want, but have no idea how or where I could get one of those. It would be perfect though since you mention that I could place hundred or thousands of them with little or no FPS hit.If I could get one of those flat/planer balls of light that I could place with Instant Scenery I would be all set.BTW, what is IIUC? I saw that term used in your post a few times and have no idea what it is or what it means.Thanks Sean

[GaryGB 10]

Now as far as what you mentioned how could I go about getting some of the "flat/planar gradient-textured vector circles which "rotate to aircraft viewpoint" in any axial or tangential direction relative to the central reference point of the Effect object"?

Hi Sean:Try editing (a copy of) these default FS Effects with FSX SDK "VisualFxTool": :( [FS install path]\Effects\fx_navred.fx and [FS install path]\Effects\fx_navwhi.fx

If I could get one of those flat/planer balls of light that I could place with Instant Scenery I would be all set.

You'd have to "attach" an Effect to a MDL as described above, with some potential display control limitations/complicationsYou could place a line of such objects containing an "attached" Effect using IS version 2.x, but all your Effect parameters as to scaling, control of the time of day to display, distance within which to display etc. would still have to be pre-programmed into the *Fx file, since IS does not yet do XML placement coding for Effects nor their display control parameters, regardless of whether that Effect is "attached" to a MDL.NOTE: An additional type of *.Fx file called a "controller" is used when more complex control of Effect display is required.Currently available Object Placers such as IS or others do not, to my knowledge, have those Effect control functions built into their GUI, so you'd have more work to do manually coding those parameters in the *.Fx files themselves; FBP's GUI allows for a significant portion of that control coding to be done via the XML placement code rather easily.

BTW, what is IIUC? I saw that term used in your post a few times and have no idea what it is or what it means.

IIUC = If I Understand Correctly(...often seen hanging around with these shady characters) : :( IIRC = If I Recall CorrectlyandAFAIK = As Far As I Know GaryGB

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Thanks for all the additional info Gary.I think that attaching the effect to the model is the hard part since I dont have a model to attach it to, lol. Not only that but I dont have to tools or knowledge to make a model like the flat/planar thing you mentioned. I think what I will do is pitch your idea to some of the developers of airport sceneries that I frequently buy from and see if one of them could make me a model like the one you described with the effect attached. Worse case scenario they will say no, however if I offer then a couple bucks to do it as a little side project maybe one of them could do it.I do appreciate all the time and effort you put into explaining how all this stuff works. I'm afraid its a little more than I want to take on at the time not to mention the confusion of it all. If one of the devs cant do it them I will either just wait until I have more free time to learn how to model or just forget about it and move on. Frankly, I am a little surprised that as many library objects that I have downloaded containing lighting poles with lights and things similar to that, no one has made a set of just lights like I am looking for. I guess most people want the pole and not just the glowing orb to place.Anyway, thanks for the time you took to explain it.BTW, thanks for telling me what IIUC and IIRC are. I thought they had to do with modeling or something, lol.Regards

[GaryGB 10]

Hi Sean:I see that you have Ultimate Terrain X: USA for FSX (aka "UTX-USA") installed.I'm wondering if you have yet enabled "Night Lighting" in the UTX-USA configuration utility to see how that works for your area(s) of interest ? IIRC, like other FS add-ons, UTX uses FS Effect "balls of light" under discussion here for street/traffic lights.Since UTX vector roads are fairly complete when one enables more of the "Road Surfaces" options, I wonder if there might not be a reasonably complete effect provided by UTX-USA "Night Lighting" as well ?FYI: I find that UTX night lighting effects are larger than I'd personally prefer as a "low and slow" GA aircraft flyer, and there is IMHO, a tendency for some of the content in that program to be larger, which IIUC at UTX's default settings might actually appeal more to the heavy flyer at higher altitudes.Would I be correct that jets are your primary aircraft in FS based on the list in your post signature info ?Hope this might be yet another option for you that requires less complexity. :( GaryGB

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Hi Sean:I see that you have Ultimate Terrain X: USA for FSX (aka "UTX-USA") installed.I'm wondering if you have yet enabled "Night Lighting" in the UTX-USA configuration utility to see how that works for your area(s) of interest ? IIRC, like other FS add-ons, UTX uses FS Effect "balls of light" under discussion here for street/traffic lights.Since UTX vector roads are fairly complete when one enables more of the "Road Surfaces" options, I wonder if there might not be a reasonably complete effect provided by UTX-USA "Night Lighting" as well ?FYI: I find that UTX night lighting effects are larger than I'd personally prefer as a "low and slow" GA aircraft flyer, and there is IMHO, a tendency for some of the content in that program to be larger, which IIUC at UTX's default settings might actually appeal more to the heavy flyer at higher altitudes.Would I be correct that jets are your primary aircraft in FS based on the list in your post signature info ?Hope this might be yet another option for you that requires less complexity. :( GaryGB

Hi Gary.Yes I have tried the light effects for the roads in UTX, but dont really care for them that much and like you said the light ball are a little bigger than what I like. Not to mention that the performance hit can be more that what I would like depending on the city and a/c that I am flying into or out of. Then there is also the fact that UTX lights only cover the US and Europe. Primarly what I want the light balls for is to just place some on some roads and other places around an airport. I didn't really intend to go to great lenghts as far as doing all the hiways and streets in a city, just some lights here and there around the vicinity of an airport.Also you are right about jets being my prmary choice of a/c in FSX, mainly the PMDG 747 and LDS 767.

[GaryGB 10]

Hi Sean:I can see that Instant Scenery version 2 (aka "IS2") might be very fast-working solution for you, if only you had a tiny custom MDL of a non-textured object with an attached Effect file.When compiled into an FS scenery library, Instant Scenery 2 could very quickly allow one (via the mouse rather than the usual 'cumbersome' joystick slewing) to set a start point and an end point for a line of multiple instances of your selected library object.As stated in the IS2 manual:"You can choose between a line containing a fixed number of evenly-spaced objects, and a line containing objects with a specified spacing."There is a free demo of the new Instant Scenery 2 (IS2) available at:http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=instscen2IS2 thus can space FS scenery library objects (ex: streetlight "balls") at regular intervals along the line you create, and then it writes all the placement code for each reference point into the IS scenery project BGL.If one were doing vector lines that follow break points as roads bend or turn etc. in IS2, one would still have to manually determine the proper position to "start" another segment along a line relative to the end point of a prior line to make the intervals look more consistent as in the real world with street light placement.That manual determination of the proper start point for a new segment relative to a just-completed segment in order to maintain consistent visual distances between objects in a series of segments... might end up taking considerable time, even though the use of the mouse makes things go faster for single lines.FYI: It is here that FenceBuilder Pro (FBP) "shines" at Effect or object placement as a result of the hard work that Don Grovestine has done making sure "segments" line up properly with specified regular (or even randomized !) intervals along the entire length of a multi-segment vector plot.One can have FBP do all the math and positioning for individual segments (or objects / Effects) if we give FBP the start, end, and vector "break" points in between by simply slewing and clicking via the FBP GUI.FBP then computes the placement ref-points, writes out the BGL, creates a \Scenery sub-folder structure for it... and even enters it as an "active" area into the FS Scenery library GUI for us! :Big Grin:So you do have a number of options for enhancing some of the areas you see at lower altitudes around favorite airports when landing or taking off.Perhaps one of the GMAX wizards might contribute something to the FS community in the way of a FS scenery library containing such "light ball" Effect objects in several sizes and colors for use with XML object placer utilities.Maybe Sid Schwartz would consider making this type of "object/Effect" library available as an alternative to his other collection of ramp lights etc. ? :( GaryGB