MS Flight - Cloud based sim, no disks?

[dmaher 0]

If it's 50/50 then it's a good day for me because I'm usually wrong....lol

Ha, me too.. :)So, I’m hoping some tech savvy person will explain what they mean by ‘cloud computing’ with respect to Flight.The idea as I understand is to offload all the hard work from your client PC to a network of server machines.While that works for word-processing, I don’t know of any commercial 3D games that do this yet.The connection to stream good graphics in real-time to a PC just doesn’t exist for the majority of people.So it’s all kind of academic for now.I used to play a 2D browser game called Tribal Wars...it’s a server side game (as far as I know).So this technology is starting to coming along.I really think if MS had said Flight was going to be on Steam there wouldn’t be the same suspicion.MS wants a future in PC gaming - thus GFW-Live.

[Guest veeray]

Unless you are into IT you don't need to know what cloud computing is...

[josepha1 0]

Unless you are into IT you don't need to know what cloud computing is...

Unless you post on a flight sim website which has nothing to do with IT.

[dmaher 0]

Unless you are into IT you don't need to know what cloud computing is...

Lol, AVSIM is a forum about things ‘you don't need to know’ :)We still discuss them...hopefully to learn a thing or two.

[HoratioWondersocks 4]

Lol, AVSIM is a forum about things ‘you don't need to know’ :)We still discuss them...hopefully to learn a thing or two.

Absolutely!I agree If this cloud stuff may possibly have a baring on FS use,then we have every right to enquire as to what it is.I would like to know about it anyway, just because I am an awkward devil.So there nah ne nah!PS Has it anything to do with the cloud appreciation society?Can't beat a nice Cumulus. Andy

[Guest veeray]

I'm sure others are doing their own thing but this is what Microsoft's plans are :http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/Flight will be using this instead: You can get your gamertag right now, or you can wait until Microsoft forces you to when you buy Flight. Either way they can sell you addons or they can sell you some other game like Steam does. Either way it's a distributed networkhttp://www.microsoft.com/games/en-us/live/pages/livejoin.aspxHope that clears things up but there is a line between a distributed network and cloud computing, but then again there are a lot of similarities and in both situations they're definitely running the Windows OS.

[n4gix 4,947]

I'm sure others are doing their own thing but this is what Microsoft's plans are :http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/Flight will be using this instead:

No, it will not... Azure is intended to be used by organizations who's applications need to maintain a centralized data repository without having to maintain their own hardware server farm.

[Guest veeray]

Bill : ok there.. if that's what you think I said....

[n4gix 4,947]

Bill : ok there.. if that's what you think I said....

Azure != LIVEThat's all I'm saying. They are completely separate paradigms.

[Guest simmer9304]

Q: What is "Microsoft Flight?" A: "Microsoft Flight" is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows – LIVE service and will bring a new perspective to the long-standing "Flight Simulator" franchise. From new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft and integrated content marketplace, it is an entirely new breed of virtual flight. The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration. Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.Q: What is "Microsoft Flight?" A: "Microsoft Flight" is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows – LIVE service and will bring a new perspective to the long-standing "Flight Simulator" franchise. From new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft and integrated content marketplace, it is an entirely new breed of virtual flight. The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration. Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.

I think this was supposed to read something like this:Q: What is "Microsoft Flight?"A: Microsoft's solution to removing those pesky people who enjoy flying airplanes on their computers. It is actually not an upcoming game, but instead a series of releases of information that will be wildly interpreted it. From statements like "builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simlatuon" people will quickly conclude it is going to be a browser based 2D subscription shooter for Xbox. They will then become terrified and post on their forums about the terror that awaits them in the coming years. As these rumours spread, major flight simulation websites will struggle under the increasing traffic of people posting their thoughts on the terror. Soon, all these websites will slow to a crawl and finally collapse the day before Microsoft claims "Flight" will be release, thus ending flight simulation.Or at least that's the press release I remember reading... :(

[John_Cillis 2,406]

My feeling is Microsoft Flight may use some type of technology similar to Tileproxy, either offering for free as part of the package or offering a one time subscription or annual subscription to a service--all in addition to the default scenery. Tileproxy has proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that a fair contemporary system can run photoreal scenery at incredibly high speeds. I have flown one Tileproxy flight from Arizona to Florida, in the flight levels. It wasn't perfect--there was occasional blurring, but it for me was the closest thing to real airliner flight I'd ever experienced in a sim. Would I pay for a subscription to such a service? If it provided world wide coverage at at least 1M and the price were reasonable--yes. Small price for an incredible experience, in my book.So in this sense if the scenery is in the Cloud, and if the technology behind serving it were perfected so textures get pumped to the sim without blurring, then I see people embracing it as long as the old standby of default scenery works.Also, how often do we buy add-on aircraft and shelve them when we get tired? What if, for a $9.00 monthly fee, you could use any aircraft from a library of hundreds or even thousands for any flight? If Microsoft got together with commercial developers who already have great aircraft, it might provide a steady stream of license revenue and help subsidize those developers who have great products, but minimal resources to market them.I don't care for subscription based software, but if add-ons can be supported by subscription, we have a very powerful sim and recognition for a lot of talent out there.Regards,John

[ahuimanu 50]

Cloud-based? Not possible. The level of broadband penetration in the title's primary market, North America (specifically, the USA), is not good enough to "stream" this app. However, what you should be thinking of is DLC.Look at Simmarket, Aerosoft, the Avsim store, etc. There is content there selling for $20, $30, $50 and up. I have no clue what the sales figures are, but I will tell you that Microsoft is getting 0% of the cut of that action. When MS/ACES first started to give us an SDK, the users of those tools were primarily making freeware. Over the last decade, these wizards, artists and charlatans all increased their command of the tools and have produced an after-market which is widely varied. We have some very reputable high-end products, many in the middle, and some quasi-thieves. It is an unregulated market in the sense that it's required component, MS's FS (and, of course, the parent company), is not used to regulate or organize this content. So, my position is twofold:1) Microsoft wants a cut of the action and sees precedent for commercial DLC (Downloadable Content) exemplified in models like that used by Steam and that used by Apple for the iPhone.2) By maintaining a cut and bottleneck for content, MS can control this content, and control it's quality. To go back to the iPhone example, each iPhone developer pays for the right to create that content and must channel this content through Apple. Thus, I'm sure a new licensing agreement will surface such that:A ) you may use the SDK, still likely for a fee, to create freeware at your discretion. Whether this must still channel through their store is unknown. Thus, I see the need for "signing" stuff if you want it in the store, even if it is actually a free area. The only threat to this part of my proposition is that the expense for all the bandwidth would be a problem. Thus, I'm sure freeware will still exist in places like the Avsim libraryB ) you must pay a fee to MS to sell any third party content and this content must be sold through the MS store for DLC - likely purchasable right through the game interface. As such, I don't see a market, at all, for boxed copies.DiscussionThe problem with my proposition above is that the cost-benefit of filtering and policing content for a DLC store is unclear to me absent better facts. I don't know if MS will just simply take their cut, the way Flight1 does when people use their wrapper, or whether MS will take their cut AND spend the resources to police material in their store. Once they get in the act, MS will be forced to deal with myriad dissatisfied customers who don't like this, that and the other about their purchase - read the history of the forums here at AVSIM to get a sense of 3rd-party add-on discontent.In any case, I do not, for a minute, buy into the premise that this will be a "cloud" application. The reason being: there are too many texture and scenery files to do this. However, I do believe that, in addition to the DLC scenario I described above, that MS will certainly have a provision for "live" updates to the product that can fix, add, and delete content at Mircosoft's discretion. So, that's cloud-like, but you'll still need an initial install file or disk. I also see this online-orientation a measure to curb piracy as the "always-connected" model would allow MS to control that better.By the bye, I don't particularly see any of this as a problem. If the SDK is improved and streamlined sufficiently, then the whole development paradigm will change. Some of those who flourish under the current model may not like the new arrangement I am guessing at, and will chafe at it's mere suggestion. However, a new toolset might be a playing-field leveler that allows new talent to enter that market. This new talent may not even know about, or care about, our current add-on market arrangement. As such, those in the old-guard who adapt and embrace the new model will probably have an edge over these new guys. But those who sit out, in protest, will eventually be relegated. I certainly hope to see the old talent move forward, as their experience is invaluable, but I also welcome a modicum of control and oversight that a MS-DLC system would bring. A REAL bonus would be if the DLC system actually helped to protect these guys against piracy. Perhaps we'd still have PSS today (and others?) if the piracy hadn't gotten so out of control.