MS F9 Patch..You know ,

[Hornit 3]

Hey, you got your opinion and I got mine, I dont agree with you but I do agree with the author of this post. Just so you know how it works, the hardware guys will ship chipsets and cards to major developers like MS etc so they can make sure their stuff is compatible. They do this usually a good bit prior to the release of the hardware, Im sure MS could have worked the problem if they really wanted to. I really don't think there is any excuse. Again just my opinion, you are entitled to yours. I have been simming for over 10 years now, and I am personally getting tired of every new flight sim coming out requiring this or that tweak or a patch. Its in the mindset of developers these days.Go ahead and release if they are 90%, we'll fix it in the patch. Its a shame but its true of lots of software these days. I can probably count the sims I have owned on one hand that have done what they said they would right out of the blocks with no significant issues. Seriuosly, you think most of the folks in here dont know thier way around a computer?, or how to tweak it for flight sims? I really think your wrong there. Just take a look at half the sigs in here, how many folks do you think even know whats inside the computer they are using?? To be able to intelligently display these facts suggests a modicum of expertise. Again just my opinion, yes there are the few who come in here that don't know a whole lot, but I am pretty sure its a big minority. I find few in here are DEMANDING anything, just pointing out factual data and tests which show there just might be something wrong with the sim, not in a big way, but in a big enough one to warrant something done about it. That along with a hint of frustration can be construed as whining, bt I don't see it that way.Hornit

[Geofa 108]

Well since you mention the 10 years of simming-I've been doing it since 1980-guess that makes 24 years! :-)-First version of fs-1 fps on a state of the art machine-2nd and third version of fs-4-6 fps on a state of the art machine-Got my first voodoo card and state of the art PI200-got 8-12 fps and was blown away on fs4 by this "new" performanceSo I guess it is interesting to an "old timer" like me to see the complaining about a product that has been evolving for 24 years-each version with more features-and yes each version with better performance and exponential features.Now with sliders (it used to be you took it "as is"-no sliders ) the end user can adjust for the equipment-but now it seems that many view that as a negative. If I turn everything down slider wise on fs9-it looks better than fs2002, I get more features, and it actually runs faster. I"d call that an improvement. In fact I can turn everything to max-and turn either autogen all the way down, or ai traffic all the way down-and I still get better performance than any prior version of fs-with many more features-weather, atc, better flight dynamics etc. etc..Seems like an improvement to me.Yes-if I turn everything to the max-and ooh and ah-and wish I had a machine that could run it full sliders today.But the 12-20 fps I get with 92% turned up sure looks good now-and especially when I look at the past history.It ain't perfect-it never was ,and it never will be.Too be honest on any given day any of the aircraft I fly in the real world have a lot more bugs than fs does (also real world atc but we won't go there).But I guess it would be unfair to compare reality to a "game" :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Hornit 3]

Bobby,this is in reply to your other post, a bit condescending in attitude I might add."Have any of those that are having problems ever read the back of the box stating system requirements?. You do realize that this is the minimum requirements for the minimum outcome. To play it. Period, dot end of story. This is assuming a machine in top condition. Not actually top rated hardware but good condition. It amazes me how many people whine and moan about poor performance pointing fingers at everything except the last thing sitting in front of that computer.........YOU. The USER." Oh come on! How about the developers get off the acid they are taking and post what would be considered a system allowing at least moderately enjoyable gameplay? This has also been a big problem for the last few years, its plain and simple greed. Post this or that requirement, and while yes it will run, it aint gonna look like it does on the box. Its a ploy for sales, period."For those that want even decent performance from a program, especially one as involved as FS9 stop the finger pointing and MS bashing for a minute and start at the top. Or the front if you like. You the user."When was the last time you did a good defrag of your machine? With a good Defrag program, not MS's default app? If you spend more than 2 hours a day on your machine and you answered more than 5 days ago, than here we have fault #1."I did one today!! yay for me:)"How many are running anti-virus software and don't disable it before firing up the sim? Fault #2"Nothing running here except explorer and good ole systray! Again yay for me:)"I'm sure we are all running the latest Bios / Chipset drivers / Video card drivers and updates for our OS right? Highly unlikely so..Fault #3"Hmmm, lemme see, latest bios, latest vid drivers and sound, and yup up to date OS! Once again YAY for me :)"Adaware/Spyware is a notorious culprit for stealing memory and CPU cycles. When was the last time you checked?. Been on KAZAA or such in the last 24 hours? Check again, you'd be surprised. Fault #4"Lets see, no spyware here, no Kazaa or anything like it, oh yeah and I use Adaware and one or two other nice freeware apps to zap whatever makes it through my firewall"How many of you have a start bar that looks like a software add for COMPUSA. 9 apps loading at startup stealing 40% of your resources. Sure 512 megs of Corsair memory is great but not if 220 megs of it are being eaten up by uneeded apps and services. Fault #5"Nothin there...yay!"Not finally but I think I'm getting my point across, how many of you are just flat out trying to get the Sim to run at slider settings that are just not doable on your machine?. I don't agree with it but you do realize that the minimum requirements to run are based on the minimum settings within the sim. All sliders to the LEFT."hmmm, medium sliders here and lots of stuff is off, must be good no? :)"If this has come across sarcastic or snotty it was not meant to be. Does FS9 need a patch?. Only for those issues that are reproducible on a broad number of setups proving a fault with the code and not the user's equipment."Well you blew that one, snottiest post I have seen in here in a while"I'm done with my rant. I am now applying my Airport firefighters suit and await the heat."Looks like its melting!! :)By the way, I was being sarcastic, not meant to be...ahem.."snotty" :)No sweat Bobby, Like I said earlier your entitled to your opinion, as we all are, you make some good arguments but I think some of them dont hold any water. I believe the truth is we only hear from a small vocal minority and a knowledgable one at that. Most FS users dont even know this forum exists so your wasting your breath!Hornit

[Hornit 3]

Geeze, Geofa, what kind of aircraft you flyin every day with more bugs than FS? :) The ones I drive work great almost ALL THE TIME, no kiddin!!! Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I like this sim, I dont love it and while I think it has a few issues, they will get fixed over time like all the other ones we have seen in the past. Mostly by all the fine freeware developers who enjoy this hobby. It will evolve and so will our hardware over the next two years so we can "run it all". I have no illusions about a patch or being able to run this sim flat out maxed. I run it so its smooth on my hardware and i can enjoy it. Its a definite improvement over 2002, I will say that!Hornit

[Guest FPSFREAK]

>Hey, you got your opinion and I got mine, I dont agree with>you but I do agree with the author of this post. Just so you>know how it works, the hardware guys will ship chipsets and>cards to major developers like MS etc so they can make sure>their stuff is compatible. They do this usually a good bit>prior to the release of the hardware, Im sure MS could have>worked the problem if they really wanted to. I really don't>think there is any excuse. Again just my opinion, you are>entitled to yours.I'm well aware of how it works. I average 5 custom built systems a week. Actually the way it works is the hardware is shipped so microsoft can attempt to make the code work with it. They don't HAVE to make it work. Same thing for qualified vs unqualified drivers. Again the no excuse phrase. Begets that "perfection factor" I spoke of.>> I have been simming for over 10 years now, and I am>personally getting tired of every new flight sim coming out>requiring this or that tweak or a patch. Its in the mindset of>developers these days.>Go ahead and release if they are 90%, we'll fix it in the>patch. Its a shame but its true of lots of software these>days.While your at it try lumping blame on the distributors looking to make a profit off of it, and the public crying about how they want it now and not wanting to wait.>> I can probably count the sims I have owned on one hand that>have done what they said they would right out of the blocks>with no significant issues.I could count them on probably 2 fingers :)>> Seriuosly, you think most of the folks in here dont know>thier way around a computer?, or how to tweak it for flight>sims? I really think your wrong there. Just take a look at>half the sigs in here, how many folks do you think even know>whats inside the computer they are using?? To be able to>intelligently display these facts suggests a modicum of>expertise. Again just my opinion, yes there are the few who>come in here that don't know a whole lot, but I am pretty sure>its a big minority.Honestly I think maybe 60% know there way around their system fairly well. As for the sig thing you speak of. It takes a lot to copy whats written on the outside of the box that your spankin' new machine came in that was plastered all over the back of some magazine with either a DELL Logo or some type of ALIEN head. There are quite a few but not as many as YOU think.> I find few in here are DEMANDING anything, just pointing out>factual data and tests which show there just might be>something wrong with the sim, not in a big way, but in a big>enough one to warrant something done about it. That along with>a hint of frustration can be construed as whining, bt I don't>see it that way.From your post.....We are not a bunch of whiners, we are demanding software owners, and by the way, very experienced ones at that.Exactly what is it that makes you demanding software owners if your not demanding anything.Just curious that's all....And remeber folks these are just opinions and we all know what they're like.......A*******....Everybody has one :)(The above statement was not meant as a put down and does not represent the views of AVSIM.COM, it's families, employees or any affiliates.)Bobby

[Guest FPSFREAK]

>Bobby,>>this is in reply to your other post, a bit condescending in>attitude I might add.Only if you took it that way or don't agree with what I said.>>"Have any of those that are having problems ever read the back>of the box stating system requirements?. You do realize that>this is the minimum requirements for the minimum outcome. To>play it. Period, dot end of story. This is assuming a machine>in top condition. Not actually top rated hardware but good>condition. It amazes me how many people whine and moan about>poor performance pointing fingers at everything except the>last thing sitting in front of that computer.........YOU. The>USER.">> Oh come on! How about the developers get off the acid they>are taking and post what would be considered a system allowing>at least moderately enjoyable gameplay? This has also been a>big problem for the last few years, its plain and simple>greed. Post this or that requirement, and while yes it will>run, it aint gonna look like it does on the box. Its a ploy>for sales, period.It's called a business. You make money selling stuff. If you were observant you would have seen my statement saying I don't agree with it but thats the way it is, the way it will be. If you want to try changing it be my guest. Than make the other 5000 companies out there that advertise that way stop it too.>>"For those that want even decent performance from a program,>especially one as involved as FS9 stop the finger pointing and>MS bashing for a minute and start at the top. Or the front if>you like. You the user.">>When was the last time you did a good defrag of your machine?>With a good Defrag program, not MS's default app? If you spend>more than 2 hours a day on your machine and you answered more>than 5 days ago, than here we have fault #1.">>I did one today!! yay for me:)Hey so did I :)>>"How many are running anti-virus software and don't disable it>before firing up the sim? Fault #2">>Nothing running here except explorer and good ole systray!>Again yay for me:)Now your cookin'>>"I'm sure we are all running the latest Bios / Chipset drivers>/ Video card drivers and updates for our OS right? Highly>unlikely so..Fault #3">>Hmmm, lemme see, latest bios, latest vid drivers and sound,>and yup up to date OS! Once again YAY for me :)Don't stop now ;)>>"Adaware/Spyware is a notorious culprit for stealing memory>and CPU cycles. When was the last time you checked?. Been on>KAZAA or such in the last 24 hours? Check again, you'd be>surprised. Fault #4">>Lets see, no spyware here, no Kazaa or anything like it, oh>yeah and I use Adaware and one or two other nice freeware apps>to zap whatever makes it through my firewallLooks like we have us a geek ladies and gents (JK ;))>>"How many of you have a start bar that looks like a software>add for COMPUSA. 9 apps loading at startup stealing 40% of>your resources. Sure 512 megs of Corsair memory is great but>not if 220 megs of it are being eaten up by uneeded apps and>services. Fault #5">>Nothin there...yay!Wow your even better than me ;)>>"Not finally but I think I'm getting my point across, how many>of you are just flat out trying to get the Sim to run at>slider settings that are just not doable on your machine?. I>don't agree with it but you do realize that the minimum>requirements to run are based on the minimum settings within>the sim. All sliders to the LEFT.">>hmmm, medium sliders here and lots of stuff is off, must be>good no? :)Not really, depends on your hardware.....>>"If this has come across sarcastic or snotty it was not meant>to be. Does FS9 need a patch?. Only for those issues that are>reproducible on a broad number of setups proving a fault with>the code and not the user's equipment.">>Well you blew that one, snottiest post I have seen in here in>a whileYou obviously spend little time here. Sorry but thats the truth>>>"I'm done with my rant. I am now applying my Airport>firefighters suit and await the heat.">>Looks like its melting!! :)By the way, I was being sarcastic,>not meant to be...ahem.."snotty" :)Funny, I still feel cool. Only one flame really trying to make me warm and it isn't really working ;)>>No sweat Bobby, Like I said earlier your entitled to your>opinion, as we all are, you make some good arguments but I >think some of them dont hold any water. I believe the truth is>we only hear from a small vocal minority and a knowledgable>one at that. Most FS users dont even know this forum exists so>your wasting your breath!Um ok If you say so. I wonder though if most simmers don't know this place exists, how has it gotten so big??Have a good night.Time for bed........................................Bobby

[Geofa 108]

Really!I rarely fly any aircraft that doesn't have something not working.I rarely fly a day in the atc system that there isn't a screw up (no slam to atc-they are great).I flew a Cap 182 on Saturday-the manifold gauge would only show 12 " at full power-cycling in and out would make it finally work-intermitent-one of those things.Right now on my plane the #4 Cylinder egt gauge (out of 6) isn't working-and for some reason coupling to the loran causes the autopilot to start a slow turn to the right.My friends' arrow -the starter sometimes skips, the adf is non operable, and the dme is intermitent.The club at my airport-their 210's autopilot does much the same as my plane-works fine on heading bug but couple it to the gps and it starts a slow turn. They have had it in the shop 4 times in the last month-can't figure it out.Typical atc probs-my call sign wrong-telling me to turn right when meant left, sending me through the localizer, not calling traffic, forgeting to hand off to next controller, not getting request from approach to tower controller....A few examples-but planes/atc flying seldom are/is perfect-perhaps ms is modelling reality completely!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

[Guest JonP01]

>If I turn everything down slider wise on fs9-it looks better>than fs2002, I get more features, and it actually runs faster.>I"d call that an improvement.Spot one there Geof :-) I've been running the sim hard for two weeks now and I agree. I have the sliders set way below what I did in FS2002, and FS2004 still looks better in every respect. Not only that, but flying over the Australian stock FS2004 scenery mesh takes a whole lot more computing power than FS2002 ever did, because the mesh resolution is so much higher it hardly bears comparison. And *still*, FS2004 runs much better than FS2002 did. MS have finally resolved some really irrating problems with the graphics engine and it really shows. To make matters even better, there is still so much headroom in those sliders that I could double or even triple the speed of my machine and simply re-configure the sim to suit. Great scalability. I wouldn't go back to FS2002 for anything, and my copy of FS2002 is already on sale at eBay (no takers though, it would seem the majority are more than happy to upgrade).FS2002 took me months and months of stuffing around and fiddling to get working well. A couple of weeks tuning is all it took for FS2004, and I'm bolwed over by this sim. I finally feel I've taken one giant step towards "as real as it gets" - far more than any other version upgrade I've gone through before.I agree it isn't perfect, as you say. But people should realise if we waited for the perfect sim we'd never get new versions. I could write out my own list of minor irritations and a couple of minor performance issues, but after about 50 hours use I haven't found any show stoppers and every time I fire it up I'm amazed it even runs at all - considering how great it looks and how well it aspires to being a true simulation.

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

Hi,I don't know that this sim needs a patch for "top end users not getting 'exactly' what they want". I don't necessarily think it needs a patch to fix every little bug. But I do think the sim deserves a patch for what I think has been the most glaring issue. Missing and misplaced autogen bridges and objects. I also think that maybe the FLight Dynamics should be fixed. Anyone wanna tell me what happens when they try a FULL WING STALL in the default 747-400?Regards,Jim

[Noel 4,501]

Performance-wise I think this sim is excellent. It DOES have a few bugs or omissions with ATC, the exterior aircraft surfaces are TOO reflective/too much contrast or something very unphotoreal looking, and the dang visibility/haze model SUCKS WIND by comparison to FS2002. Just my 2 cents . . .Noel

[Hornit 3]

FPSFreak, This place is so big because we all cant seem to get away from It! Geeze I just noticed how many posts I have!!! ACK! On your comment about it being a business....I dont agree there either, telling it like it is with a bit of integrity is never a bad thing, no matter what your doing.Hornit

[Guest DannyBoy]

JimmiGPlease do post some problem flights. Like Bigshot said short ones. I would be interested to know the results we all get. Currently I only get a slight stuttering when in heavy weather.PS. Don't forget to specify the weather & a default aircraft :-)Danny :-beerchug

[1mikel151 71]

Hey Bobby, I agree with a lot of what you said, but still think there my be some real issues.Would it be possible for you to list a system/ spec that a user could buy and have it run satisfactory with all sliders maxed and the sim running in all it's glory, or is there not a consumer system straight off the shelf that will do this?I say this as there are a lot of posts from posters with high end specs that are having issues, be it sim or user related. I did some small upgrades earlier this year and while FS9 runs fairly well on my current setup I would like to improve upon it, but I am leary of spending money if I am unable to have it running like I excpect, just curious.With 5 custom systems a week, I am sure that you might have some insight and this could benefit others.Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

[Guest wathomas777]

You preach it brother. I just got FSGenesis 38m coverage for the US and this sim is amazing with it. Spent all last night doing quick "redeuxs" of vacations that I have been taking, and some I've wanted to take.Let's see. Devil's Tower, (finally), not perfect but very recognizable, and EXACTLY where it's supposed to be according to my US Road Atlas.Meteor Crater, Grand Canyon, Stone Mountain, Bryce Canyon, Zion National Park. All in incredible detail (considering 38m DEM limitations)Even all the little nuances of the Pacific Northwest, around Seattle. I got so used to flying into Flat as Pancake Seattle and Tacoma (as depicted by sims) that the amount of detail when in 38m DEM just makes the area come alive.And all of this at 20 to 24FPS in almost all scenarios, My only gripe, is that my $80 video card really suffers when I turn on AA so If I want to maintain 24FPS at all times, I have to either go with 2xAA or disable it alltogether.However, jaggies are not a big issue with me.BTW. Only ONE PERFECT flight sim was ever developed....Pro Pilot 99 :-smile12

[Guest otter55]

no flame here, just facts:1. stuttering- Everyone has this problem.some get it worse than others but its always there.NEVER HAD THE FIRST STUTTER YET2. Possible memory leak when it comes to any autogen setting/ turning on gps window.RUN MOST EVERYTHING MAXED OUT, FPS REMAIN CONSISTENTLY HIGH THROUGHOUT FLIGHTS, GPS HAS NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER ON FPS.3. compatability- its not compatable with most existing systems.the newer your rig the more probs. RUNNING FS9 ON MY NEW SYSTEM AND MY SONS OLD SYSTEM. BOTH HAVE HAD PERFECT PERFROMANCE WITH NONE OF THE MENTIONED "BUGS".MY SYSTEM IS P4 3.06, 1 GIG RAM, TI 4600 , XPMY SONS SYSTEM IS P4 1.5, 1 768MG RAM, GF 5200 128 MG CARD, XP4. Bad programing code- several errors in programing i.e. "the miracle fix" is just adding a line into your cfg file you SHOULD have already had. WE BOTH RUN UNTOUCHED CFG FILES5.Strange "bug?" in the terrian generator-- park a 777 at seattle engines off. spot view and wait...then like a small earth quake you will see your aircraft hop up and down. HAVE NOT TRIED THAT. FLY ONLY GA.6. gmax-bad choice--- gmax was notorious for the sudden pop in textures on buildings etc when using fs8. Now simmers are complaing about the same thing now. gmax render to texture has got to improve.I'M NOT COMPLAINING. HAVE SEEN NO TEXTURES "POP IN".not everyone is having problems. i, my son, my best friend dowm the road (running fs9 on a 3 year old "e" machine piece of crap) have zero problems.i know some folks DO have real problems. but i see and read of a huge range of computors/setups that are getting great performance with no/ very minor issues.hope you get your problems worked out so you can enjoy the finest flight sim ever sold to the public.don