Geforce3 & 2DPanels

[Guest luckyluca]

Hello,I've got a fastidious framerate drop when changing to 2D panel view. It usually drops 5-6 frames per second even with the default 172cessna.The fullscreen view (with no panel) is 5-6 fps faster then the 2D panel and also the external view is faster (I suppose it should be slower because of a wider viewing angle instead).I'm willing to try a few tweaks (agp and panelto textures=0) but I'm just confused at the moment.Has anybody the same 2Dpanel framerate drop with geforce3ti200 and, most important:Has anybody found an effective fix for it ?I've got fs2004 (sliders mid-max, default fs9.cfg)windows 2000 pro sp2GEFORCE 3 TI200 128Mbwhql detonator 30.82directx 9.0bcreative sound blaster sb1024 live!512Mb ramPentium 3 800Mhzrivatuner (only tuned the lod to negative -0.5)(I usually achieve 18 frames per second even at airports apart from the 2Dpanel view which is usually 10-12fps.)thanks a lot

[Guest waltch]

Yes, I have the same problem and some other people too.....look under this thread-title about a week ago:"2d VS. 3d panel FPS in FS2004"You can see there that 'agp and paneltotexture' entries did not help me, it made it even worse.After doing a lot of tweaks found in this and other forums I really have good FPS in all views (VC, no panel, spot view...) with my 2 year old system, however, as soon as I go into the normal 2D panel view (any default aircraft) the frames drop immediately from about 20-25 to about 12-15. This happens on any default airport, also at places where there is not much scenery around.I really wish that someone finds the 'magic' tweak for this problem.Walter

[3Green 80]

I had the some problem with 2D panels and could not fix it. I also saw a 4-5 FPS drop when opening up another window, take the radio stack as an example. Don't use the GPS either with a system like yours, which is very similar to mine. I'm sorry I can't help with this problem, and can only suggest what other people told me, "don't expect to run FS2004 like FS2002 on a system like yours". In the end, I took the DC-3 out for a spin and ditched her in the pacific, and have since gone back to flying FS2002.:-wave RJ

[Guest luckyluca]

I think my computer configuration is not the issue here.In fact I have got 18-20 frames on busy airports with 30% traffic and dense autogen at touchdown :-)This of course with full screen and no panel, as well as external view.Yes, I repeat:I have about 18-20 frames even in external and wider view (about 0.75 zoom) with lago terramesh.BUT AS SOON AS I SWITCH the 2D PANEL ON, framerate goes down to 10-12.So it can't be my pc.In fact when switching from full screen3D to 2D panel view,you have half the screen (top part) 3d view (which has been reduced by 50%) and 2dpanel (half screen of one static image and a few gauges moving.I can't accept to loose 5-7 frames per second. I think I'd rather gain speed instead! :-!I believe it must be some sort of line to be tweaked, depending upon your system and graphics card. Maybe paneltotexture=0 would do to somebody; others would have agptexture=0 or whatever.This brings me back to my original question:What is the tweak for my geforce3ti200 to avoid loosing framerate with 2DPANELS?my specs:windows 2000 pro sp2GEFORCE 3 TI200 128Mbwhql detonator 30.82directx 9.0bcreative sound blaster sb1024 live!512Mb ramPentium 3 800Mhzrivatuner (only tuned the lod to negative -0.5)THANKS

[Guest waltch]

I agree to the previous posting. It is not a problem of opening other windows (avionics, GPS) in the normal 2D panel view. I guess then everybody get's a some drop in FSP. It is also not a general 'performance problem' because I am happy with the FPS in any other view.We are talking about the following:I have a drop of 5-10 FSP when I use 2D front view with panel which of course is the normal flying situation. As soon as I go into any other view (like side or back view, virtual cockpit, no-panel view with "W", spot plane view) I have about 20-25 FPS on an average default airport (not the extremely detailed ones). This performance I consider good on my 2-year old system and I reach it after some tweaking according to tips in various forums.This happens in any default aircraft (2D front view with panel 'on').My system is a bit different from the one of luckyluca:AMD 1800XP, 512 MB DDR-RAM, GeForce3 64MB Card, Nvidia 45.23 Drivers,OnBoard Sound, WinXP Home EditionI still hope somebody has some ideas about this problem.Walter

[Guest hoohah]

Try turning off 'Render to texture' in the hardware tab, if you haven't already.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

I have some observations on the issue....I was under the assumption that this was something new--introduced by FS2004. I've had the same symptoms--5-7 fps drop with the 2-d panel, and even worse if the panel had two or more "parts" (such as a center post or light panel).In FS2002 I had always kept my fps lock to 25.... It was the low water mark for my fps, given my system and slider settings. So keeping the lock at 25 allowed my textures in FS2002 to stay "caught up" and sharp in most circumstances. I wondered if my fps lock really masked the issue in FS2002?I set fps to unlimited, and started to see the same thing--a 15 pct or so drop, sometimes more, in fps when the 2-d panel was displayed. But since the fps in the situation I was testing was well over 25, I never caught the issue.Later I found this true in FS2002 and FS2004--as I increased resolution, the problem wasn't as noticeable. Of course, fps fell off, but there seemed to be a point where the lines converged with fps testing with 2-d panel and without. If I set FS2004 to 1280x1024, there is no difference--but my fps are a good third less.My testing wasn't tightly controlled...but it's worth a try. Try starting at 800x600x32, and cycle your way up through the resolutions..... I feel "better" in a way, since the issue seems a part of FS2002.The flip side to this, is why does the problem seem to jump out in FS2004?Fly around any airport, and unless you fly at the lowest of scenery density levels, the airports are loaded with taxiway signs and smoothly curved taxiways. At altitude, my fps matches FS2002...and is even slightly better in some instances. Around airports, my fps is worse--and I attribute that to the airports having more detail. It's a shame that Microsoft didn't include a means of excluding taxiway signs. I'd be very curious how they influence performance, everything else being equal...-John

[Guest Johnp40]

I,ve noticed a strange effect with the default 737 panel when I first load fs2004. I get 20/24 fps in the 2d cockpit, switching to vc the frame rate jumps to its locked position 30fps.Now the wierd bit, back in the 2d panel when I bring up the radio stack my frame rate goes from 20/24fps up to 30fps.I can now close the radio panel and the frame rate stays at 30fps.Only noticed this in the 737.curious if anyone esle has noticed thisJohn

[Guest jdrago]

You are right! I wrote a note about the default 737 panel not too long ago mentioning how the FPS' dropped particularly on this panel. I just tried what you suggested, and opened the radio stack. My frames when up close to my locked value.Very strange, now what's the origination of the problem??Thanks,JD

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi, Dramatic test;Normaly I use 1024x768 x32 bits I get pretty stable FPS near 20 to 30 near aiports with 2 layers of 7000 feet cumulus and 30 and 80 on higher 10 000 altitude; 2dpanel or no 2d panel still the same fps on default.I have test with the Ms Sydney default situation and I use 1280x1024 32 bits this time around, result:Replicable anytime;With 2d panel 21 fpsWith no 2d panel 14 fps With all default Ms Aircraft 2dPanel, I get the same fps then no 2d panel and other situation better in 2d panel then no 2dpanel full screen. I have done tons of test about this one. Result are differents on others.The drop I have is only from 3rd party aircraft, I got near 30% fps decrease, but when I add this line; panelastexture=0 and the frame rate is only 15% decreased.What`s I have noticed on reports and the system spec they have identical to others, these FPS drop will happend on some lower CPU or combo they have, specialy near the airports with clouds, Since those area are more dense and the system need to calculate all clouds rendering refresh 1 sec per second x,y clouds rotation to prevent 2 papers thing clouds, and all the details near the airports or autogen + 2d panel animation at the same time, ths system will freak.Even worst If you don`t have weather or eithers senery details and autogen and the 2d panel still drop.. It can be the board or video card or both. Result appears differents on others system like others have crash, freez and pause etc..I have saw a post concerning something like AGP FAST DRAW in the chipset section, when he has enabled this in his BIOS, the problem was almost gone.Asus motherboard P4P800 8X 533, p4 2.533ghz 533, Gforce4TI 128 MB 8X, Windows XP Pro. All fs2004 slider to full right, except all shadows, 2AA antialasing.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Chris...I think I discovered one reason why the issue is more common with third party panels.... I discovered the issue with my own Microlight panel. When I first built the background bmp for that panel, I sized it to the full screen.... 800x600. But most of that was actually the transparent mask. I created a custom panel for FS2004, reducing the bmp to approx. 260x600. I gained back most, but not all, of my fps. The change in the bitmap is invisible to the user. I became suspicious when I noted the Schweizer panel having virtually no impact on performance.Taking a look at my third party panels, I noted that many were set up so the panel covered most of the screen using multiple windows, vs. something like the default Cessna.That, and my observations in my note above regarding FS2002 are interesting--there always has been a performence issue of sorts (at least on slower systems). But given that you have to reduce scenery detail to practically nothing to reduce the new features of airports (i.e. taxiway signs, curved taxiways), I think the combination of my slower system plus my preferred scenery density makes panel performance more "obvious".-John

[Guest luckyluca]

Chris,would you advice as a general rule to add panelastexture=0 in the fs9.cfg ? and has it to be placed under[display.nvidia.geforce3.ti200.0] ?do you use the detonator drivers 45.23?I'm using the 30.82 at the moment. I've been strongly adviced to install the 45.23 OVER the 30.82 because it 'might' gain in framerate.I'm sceptical, but 2-3 posts in the aliditalia mailing list suggest so.thanks