ILS Landing

[bfgreen 0]

Hi all,I am relatively new to ILS landing. I have spent a great deal of time on FSX and most of the prior versions, this is my passion. I have also spent a lot of time reading the threads in these forums and I have gained an enormous amount of knowledge from them and I appreciate you all sharing your knowledge and experiences. My Problem: Any airport that I fly to where the approach route is perfectly lined up with the runway I capture the localizer at about 15 miles out, 2600 feet and 165kts in the 747-400. I capture the glide slope at about 10 miles out and the ILS landing is perfect. However, if there is any angle at all in the approach route no matter how small neither the localizer or glide slope will be captured. The glide slope comes alive and just goes to the bottom of the display screen. The localizer indicator appears but does not become active until I am directly over the runway threshold (at an angle) so the approach is obviously missed.I have viewed the PMDG and several other tutorials on ILS landings on countless occasions and I believe I am doing everything that they instruct you to do and I get the same results until it comes to an approach with an angle. I would certainly appreciate any advice any one can provide. Thank you in advance!!

[michal 44]

The problem may be in the way you intercept the ILS. Tell us step by step how you intercept the localizer, how you 'find' it. And give us an example (airport/runway) where you see this angle.

[Cras 6]

It sounds like to me that you are arming the LOC and not the APP on the MCP.

[bfgreen 0]

The problem may be in the way you intercept the ILS. Tell us step by step how you intercept the localizer, how you 'find' it. And give us an example (airport/runway) where you see this angle.

Hi Michael, Thanks for replying,For instance on a flight from Chicago (KORD) to Louisville (KSDF) I selected :SID ORDS runway 32LSTAR RDSTN2 runway 35RAt about 25 miles from the airport the localizer indicator appears so I press the LOC button.At bout 12 miles from the airport the glide slope indicator appears so I press the APP button. At this point I am about 2600 feet and 165 kts with flaps 20.THANKS!!

[michal 44]

Now I am not sure what is going on.First I don't see any meaningful angle here, runway heading of the runway 35R at KSDF is less than 1 deg different from the localizer course. All ILS installations can be off by that much - not a big deal.Second you say you fly STAR RDSTONE TWO but this requires vectors, the approach plate clearly states so. So someone (ATC, you yourself) must give you vectors to intercept the localizer course, this STAR doesn't connect seamlessly with the approach phase. So I still don't know how you do it, this vectoring to the localizer course is the most critical piece of the puzzle which you left out.Sorry, I don't have FSX installed at this moment so can't tell you if there is anything particularly wrong about this airport/runway.

[Cras 6]

One thing to note is the PMDG 744 autotunes the ILS radio using NavData, which is updated by Navigraph. Navigraph updates the data based on the real world, all the while your FSX world remains the same, so you can get situations where runways change numbers and ILS change frequencies, and your Navdata no longer will function with your FSX scenery. Maybe your Navdata is tuning your ILS radio to a different runways ILS than the one you think it should, and this is why capturing the localizer and g/s is not working as it should. Can you double check the frequency your ILS is tuned to in the 744 compared to what FSX says the frequency should be. You can do this by checking the FSX map, which shows the airports, runways, ILS, navaids, or you can do it by looking in FSCommander.I also feel I should inform you that you need to sign your posts here on the PMDG board with your full name. Thanks

[bfgreen 0]

Now I am not sure what is going on.First I don't see any meaningful angle here, runway heading of the runway 35R at KSDF is less than 1 deg different from the localizer course. All ILS installations can be off by that much - not a big deal.Second you say you fly STAR RDSTONE TWO but this requires vectors, the approach plate clearly states so. So someone (ATC, you yourself) must give you vectors to intercept the localizer course, this STAR doesn't connect seamlessly with the approach phase. So I still don't know how you do it, this vectoring to the localizer course is the most critical piece of the puzzle which you left out.Sorry, I don't have FSX installed at this moment so can't tell you if there is anything particularly wrong about this airport/runway.

Michal,Thanks, I obviously have a lot to learn about approach plates and vectoring. I really appreciate your time and your support.

[bfgreen 0]

One thing to note is the PMDG 744 autotunes the ILS radio using NavData, which is updated by Navigraph. Navigraph updates the data based on the real world, all the while your FSX world remains the same, so you can get situations where runways change numbers and ILS change frequencies, and your Navdata no longer will function with your FSX scenery. Maybe your Navdata is tuning your ILS radio to a different runways ILS than the one you think it should, and this is why capturing the localizer and g/s is not working as it should. Can you double check the frequency your ILS is tuned to in the 744 compared to what FSX says the frequency should be. You can do this by checking the FSX map, which shows the airports, runways, ILS, navaids, or you can do it by looking in FSCommander.I also feel I should inform you that you need to sign your posts here on the PMDG board with your full name. Thanks

Thanks Scott,This is the first time I have used this or any forum , my name is Bobby F. Green. I just updated NavData this week. I will check to see if there is a mismatch between the Navigraph udates and FSX.

[michal 44]

Bobby, The only way to fly such an approach 'right' is probably with some sophisticated ATC program like Radar Contact, VATSIM or VOXATC. You may actually post on forums dedicated to these programs and find out how they would handle it.

[bfgreen 0]

Bobby, The only way to fly such an approach 'right' is probably with some sophisticated ATC program like Radar Contact, VATSIM or VOXATC. You may actually post on forums dedicated to these programs and find out how they would handle it.

Thanks Michael, I am going to do some research on those programs. You guys have given me a lot to work with and I appreciate you!

[Cras 6]

Thanks Michael, I am going to do some research on those programs. You guys have given me a lot to work with and I appreciate you!

+1 for Radar Contact. Much more realistic than the default FSX ATC. Has its own way of supporting DPs, and IAPs. Mimics FAA and non-FAA procedures, even has support for flying into uncontrolled fields, where you have to call FSS to get the local Wx and your departure clearence. Once I started to use Radar Contact, I have never flown without it, aside from the occasional flights on VATSIM, but to be honest, I much prefer Radar Contact to VATSIM.

[michal 44]

Bobby, But I hope you realize what was wrong here - you ended up in a wrong place and had no chance to intercept the ILS. If after completing the STAR you managed to vector yourself for the final course (by looking at some moving map, estimating your position in relation to the ILS, etc) then all would be fine.

[bfgreen 0]

+1 for Radar Contact. Much more realistic than the default FSX ATC. Has its own way of supporting DPs, and IAPs. Mimics FAA and non-FAA procedures, even has support for flying into uncontrolled fields, where you have to call FSS to get the local Wx and your departure clearence. Once I started to use Radar Contact, I have never flown without it, aside from the occasional flights on VATSIM, but to be honest, I much prefer Radar Contact to VATSIM.

Thanks Scott!

[bfgreen 0]

Bobby, But I hope you realize what was wrong here - you ended up in a wrong place and had no chance to intercept the ILS. If after completing the STAR you managed to vector yourself for the final course (by looking at some moving map, estimating your position in relation to the ILS, etc) then all would be fine.

Michael, yes I do. I think I am in a little over my head right now but I am certainly learning. Thanks!Bobby Green