If you had the choice...ATI v. NVidia

[Guest DanWalloch]

I'd rather have new ATI Radeon drivers to fix the FS04 glitches brought on by 128MB ati 9x00 series cards.

[Guest FPSFREAK]

> Given those choices, I'd opt for the 4200. BTW, whomever>told you the Centrino 1.7 was the equivalent of a 2.7 didn't>know what they were talking about. It's the equivalent of a>1.7 . You can bet that FS9 doesn't care what the marketing>guys say when it comes to available CPU cycles :-) .Doug,Actually he's quite right. :) want to know why? Glad you asked....The Pentium M's 1MB cache is massive. Intel's current high-end mobile and desktop CPUs have only 512KB of L2, which makes the Pentium M look very different right off the bat.The Pentium M's huge L2 cache is complemented by 64KB of L1 cache that's split evenly between instruction and data caches. Intel won't tell us the size of the Pentium 4's L1 instruction cache, but the Pentium 4 M's 8KB L1 data cache is a quarter the size the Pentium M'sFrom the Tech-Report, One more difference between the Pentium M and Pentium 4's L1 cache is that the former is a write-back cache, while the latter is a write-through cache. With a write-through cache, data is written to L1 and main memory simultaneously; write-back caching only writes L1 data to main memory when absolutely necessary. In theory, a write-back cache should be faster than a write-through cache because the write-back cache does fewer slow memory writes. The Pentium M is loaded with cache and other goodies that let it execute a much higher number of instructions per clock (IPC) than mobile versions of Intel's Pentium 4, tooHope this clears things up.Bobby

[Guest]

Farfagnoogin!Dis har is dat Centrino revu fer yu ta luke at:http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1801&p=19

[Guest Fishu]

I've found the NVidia more reliable than ATI, it'll work in any game very well, whereas ATI might have some issues displaying the graphics.ATI can be more efficient with electricity, which might be a factor for the laptops.However 32mb cards, in the gaming world, have pretty much lived over their age by now and as I recall, ATI 9000 isn't as powerful as NVidias 4200.IF only playing FS on a laptop, I'd probably go for the ATI - cheaper and requires less juice from the batteries.IF playing other games than just FS or I'd really just would like to have a good performance in FS, I'd go for the NVidias.On the computer I use to play, has NVidias GeForce Ti4200 and graphics quality wise it's performing very good aka the graphics are correctly displayed under all circumstances.I've heard ATI might have problems displaying things correctly in the games, which was true especially back at the older radeon generations, when I had one.However ATI has improved since the days, but has still some ways to go for the reliability of NVidia, even if better performing FPS wise.(the older ATI Radeon 64mb performed 128x anisotrophy in OpenGL with a far lesser impact on FPS than this far newer GF Ti4200, go figure! and I hear newer ATI's are better at FSAA and .. still in anisotrophy.. but alas, not as guaranteed to display graphics 100%)

[Guest]

> and I hear newer ATI's are better at FSAA>and .. still in anisotrophy.. but alas, not as guaranteed to>display graphics 100%)>Yah Der ATI's AA is rally good, but da aniso really suxors.

[Guest Ray CYYZ]

Be really careful comparing old video cards with new video cards. They are not the same thing. While ATI with their 9800 series stepped out in front for a bit, they did so with tremendous heat problems that is likely to have lots of folks collecting on the product warranty when the cards fry themselves. nVidia made the same mistake with their last batch but smartened up quickly with the 5900 series, going back to saner temperatures.Looking at the 9000 series is like discussing the GeForce 2 cards. They are completely different products.We have all had issues with nVidia drivers, jumping around through a set of 10 to find the best one, but in the end, at least there ARE 10 drivers available. ATI is always behind in drivers simply because they are a much smaller company and don't have the momentum to dedicate such a large group to drivers coupled with each card generally being completely different. nVidia had one of those rare good thoughts with their unified driver series, as it has probably saved them more money in the last 5 years then ATI has earned ;)Personally, I find it rather concerning to place a burning hot card close to my burning hot CPU and cross my fingers that those cheap mechanical fans don't seize up while I happen to be out of the house sending the house up in flames.Any card that runs hot enough to burn you should raise some eyebrows...Ray

[Guest byoung]

Actually Michael,I have a Dell Laptop that has a 64 MB video and it handles FS 9 just fine.. It is not lightning speed, but it performs pretty well.Barry

[Guest Max Cowgill]

>Be really careful comparing old video cards with new video>cards. They are not the same thing. While ATI with their 9800>series stepped out in front for a bit, they did so with>tremendous heat problems that is likely to have lots of folks>collecting on the product warranty when the cards fry>themselves. nVidia made the same mistake with their last batch>but smartened up quickly with the 5900 series, going back to>saner temperatures.>>Looking at the 9000 series is like discussing the GeForce 2>cards. They are completely different products.>>We have all had issues with nVidia drivers, jumping around>through a set of 10 to find the best one, but in the end, at>least there ARE 10 drivers available. ATI is always behind in>drivers simply because they are a much smaller company and>don't have the momentum to dedicate such a large group to>drivers coupled with each card generally being completely>different. nVidia had one of those rare good thoughts with>their unified driver series, as it has probably saved them>more money in the last 5 years then ATI has earned ;)>>Personally, I find it rather concerning to place a burning hot>card close to my burning hot CPU and cross my fingers that>those cheap mechanical fans don't seize up while I happen to>be out of the house sending the house up in flames.>>Any card that runs hot enough to burn you should raise some>eyebrows...>>RayRay, can you show me a high-end component that doesn't run hot? These components are designed to run hot, otherwise they'd need massive cooling systems to run properly and what company wants that image? Remember the Nvidia Geforce FX 5800 debacle with the cooling system that took up two slots and sounded like a leaf blower? They got slammed for that and rightly so. The 5900 also takes up two slots, but isn't quite as big as the 5800. So would you rather give up a PCI slot and have a leafblower in your system or have a card that only uses the slot it was designed for and doesn't sound like a leafblower, albeit a bit hotter? I'll take the non-leafblower, thank you very much.You're off on your driver analogy as well. Nvidia has been using their unified driver model for years now, whereas ATI just started theirs last year. Even so, ATI has quite a few drivers to choose from... I count 11 WHQL-certified Catalyst drivers since November of last year. How many WHQL-certified drivers has Nvidia released in the same amount of time? (it's 4, in case you were wondering) Don't get all of the non-WHQL Detonators confused with official releases... All those Detonators you see popping up every so often are intended only for OEMs, and have undergone very minimal testing.As for the size of the two companies, Nvidia does have more marketshare but ATI actually has more liquidity (stocks, cash, lack of debts, etc.)I'm not going to flame you for your assumption about ATI cards catching on fire, but I've never heard any reports of such a thing happening (I do happen to fix PCs for a living, and have yet to run across any ATI cards in flames) ;)-Max Cowgill

[Guest Rafael Cervera]

ATI cards have built support for DX9.MSFS is a Microsoft product and uses DX9, not Open GL which is what Nvidea is good for.

[Guest FPSFREAK]

Oh great you again......Hello troll police

[Guest FPSFREAK]

>Be really careful comparing old video cards with new video>cards. They are not the same thing. While ATI with their 9800>series stepped out in front for a bit, they did so with>tremendous heat problems that is likely to have lots of folks>collecting on the product warranty when the cards fry>themselves. nVidia made the same mistake with their last batch>but smartened up quickly with the 5900 series, going back to>saner temperatures.Actually from the 9500 series and up ATI "Stepped" out. Up until the release of the 5900 could Nvidia claim the top prize again. And in all honesty, depending on the benchmarks used and the review quoted the 9800Pro is in a dead heat with it. My question to you is, where is your facts about the heat issues that you speak of? Have you ever taken your finger and put it on the HS of a 4600 after an hour of FS? Pretty warm if you ask me. My 9700Pro at 375/357 was warm to the touch but never Hot as you state. Hell my 9800Pro barely gets warm to the touch. Statements such as the above only provide wrong info and really should be tabled. It is of absolutely no help whatsoever.>Looking at the 9000 series is like discussing the GeForce 2>cards. They are completely different products.Please tell me your not comparing all the 9000 series to the geforce 2's with that statement.>We have all had issues with nVidia drivers, jumping around>through a set of 10 to find the best one, but in the end, at>least there ARE 10 drivers available. ATI is always behind in>drivers simply because they are a much smaller company and>don't have the momentum to dedicate such a large group to>drivers coupled with each card generally being completely>different. nVidia had one of those rare good thoughts with>their unified driver series, as it has probably saved them>more money in the last 5 years then ATI has earned ;)Again I don't know where your info is coming from but I would seriously investigate your sources. The companies are actually a lot closer in size than you think. Not to mention ATI showed a greater profit last year in the VC segment than Nvidia did. Your right you guys do have a whole S*** load of drivers to choose from. Comes from having to constantly make changes to keep up. Whats more confusing than worrying what driver your going to be running this week. And before you go flaming me for being an ATI a really excited user I have owned a GF3TI200 / TI500, Geforce4TI4200 / TI4600. I only went to ATI last year w the release of the 9700 so I show no favorites for that reason. I personally grew tired of the constant updates and the lack of spped once the 95/9700 was released.>Personally, I find it rather concerning to place a burning hot>card close to my burning hot CPU and cross my fingers that>those cheap mechanical fans don't seize up while I happen to>be out of the house sending the house up in flames.If your running a low quality HSF unit on your CPU than it may be warm to the touch. If you have a HS thats "Burning Hot" than you've got bigger problems to worry about than putting your "Burning Hot" VC next to it. If your running a quality HSF on your CPU and your case is properly vented than you should have little worries about heat being an issue. I hate to seem like I'm flaming ya but you really need to rethink your statements. They are infact misleading and wrong. Besides, why are you running cheap fans anyway?.>Any card that runs hot enough to burn you should raise some>eyebrows...If your Video Card or CPU is running hot enough to burn you than there are bigger issues at stake. I have never been burned by either in over 5 years of building over 200 machines.I hate to echo Max's statements but the truth is the truth. Let's try and keep the info straight and to the point.Bobby

[Guest Ray CYYZ]

Hmm, would you prefer Tom's Hardware over me for facts about ATI's new egg cooker? Lets not debate facts.The DDR-II memory that got nVidia in such trouble is the same problem that ATI now has with their 9800's. Nowhere did I state that the pre-nVidia DDR-II attempt was any good as that would be silly, we all know the card was a complete lemon.nVidia learned their lesson and smartened up with the 5900FX. ATI on the other hand pushed further with the 9800 series. ATI will probably smarten up with the 9900 series or whatever it will be called, but why on earth would one go down the path of buying a product that is so obviously wrong that you KNOW it is going to be completely reworked. nVidia has already learned their lesson and just as you would not reccomend that nVidia lemon, how can you stand up for the ATI version of the same engineering problem?Anyone with ANY electronics background at all knows that heat kills. The hotter it runs, the quicker it dies.As for the values of the ATI 9000 series, they are really not even open to debate, anyone can go out on the internet and read reviews of these old cards themselves and draw their own conclusions. By 9000 series, I am not talking about the 9200 series, the 9600 series, the 9700 series, or the 9800 series. If you wish to debate the values of this POS, I am quite sure we can scroll back in the old forum and read all the happy ATI posts (NOT!)http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9000/rad...0pro/index.html

[Guest Ray CYYZ]

http://www.nvidia.com/page/pg_20030508512898.htmlTry reading the technical brief on DX9, it might help clear up some of your misconceptions about who supports DX9 in hardware. :-lol

[JETninja 0]

LOL! Check history a bit! NVidia was an early adapter of DirextX.....4-5 years ago it was TNT2's vs the OpenGL Voodoo's....we know who won in the long run. (though many swear the Voodoo's and OpenGL was a better api....at the time it was. But thankfully Dx has improved greatly over time..)All NVidia FX series are Dx9 complient. Do a little more homework....

[yellow5 0]

I would stay away from either of those cards. Not to mention I would stay away from that system all together. Dude, its a Dell, and a pretty wimpy one at that. Don't waste your money. If you are going to buy new, get the top of the line brand new stuff. Don't go with old wimpy out dated crud.....Just an opinion, because you asked...