Delta AND NWA file for chapter11

[PLazarus 0]

Wow...Both DL and NW filed for bankrupcy today....That's bad news for the industry.PaulEdit..here's a link:-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4244112.stm

[Guest TWVA395]

Yeah, I can't believe it. Makes me really worried about my major in Aeronautical Science :(. This might be for the best, however, I think the industry is just too focused on getting the absolute best price.http://www.kthxdone.com/images/kw_ft.jpgKen Weik [link:maam.org|MAAM-SIM][link:library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=root&SearchTerm=kenneth+weik&Sort=Added&ScanMode=0&Go=Change+View]My AFCADs

[Guest Mapper]

Oh no! Not another career bound pilot! Just kidding..I too was an AS major. Although I don't really regret it, I probably should have done something else with college. A word to the already wise, be very..very..sure you realize what being a professional pilot is all about before commiting. That doesn't included playing FS, taking pictures of aircraft, or dreaming about it one day. Realize how bad $18,000 a year in 2005 really is. Realize that if you're lucky, you may see $55K within 10 years. Realize how important a 401(k) is for your future, and when making $18K-$30K a year, you can't put much in. Realize how many days you will be away from home: 18 to 21 days a month! Understand that building a family is very tough living like that. Have you ever flown 12 hour duty days 4 days in a row? It isn't fun. Get used to seeing friends with half the career commitment as you make twice as much in another field. Watch how fast you start living to work, rather then working to live.Other then that, good luck.Mike

[Guest TWVA395]

Haha, Thanks! All of that sounds great ot me. And then when they say: I'm making $50k a year and its my first real job! Then I say, but you don't have the most rewarding job in the world, now do you? :)http://www.kthxdone.com/images/kw_ft.jpgKen Weik [link:maam.org|MAAM-SIM][link:library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=root&SearchTerm=kenneth+weik&Sort=Added&ScanMode=0&Go=Change+View]My AFCADs

[Donmo 6]

You guys think we'll end up with one big federally run airlines one day, similar to Amtrac on the ground? These guys can't keep flying like they're doing. AS as a degree? I'd pick a good solid minor to fall back on, or if not too late, I think I'd change goals. The "pilot shortage" is about to take care of itself from the looks of it. Don

[MarkRey 16]

Maybe they're also just getting in under the fence before the bankruptcy laws get stricter?(edit - just saw RFields5421's post below to this effect)regards,MarkXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1GIG/X700pro256

[bic 44]

Too bad, Delta wouldn't give me anything for them losing some luggage. I won't be flying them as much I can help it. Kind of funny, the FA referred me to the gate agent. The gate agent insisted she couldn't of said that and referred me to the baggage people.The Atlanta AirTran terminal seemed very busy when I used them twice now to Florida. Nice airline with XM Satellite Radio.

[RFields5421 1]

Delta is in real trouble.NWA wants to break the union contracts - but should be able to come through as well or better than United. Their key to survival is keeping KMSP and KDTW from having much competition.Delta has severly cut back at KCVG and is losing market share at KATL.You might also have noted that Comair & Song also filed for Chapter 11 protection yesterday. Wholly owned by Delta, but some of US Airways wholly owned regional airlines did NOT file for bankruptcy last year.It appears that the US Airways / America West merger is the only thing which might save US Airways from liquidation - being closed and what assets they have being sold off.Delta will be a prime candidate for a merger / takeover by a healthier airline. The big question to be answered is there anyone who can asorb them and the debt which will be brought forward.One problem which is going to immediately occur with Delta and NWA is customer service. Pay cuts are going to be 50% or more for many employees.Those customer reps at the counters and gates are going to go from $22,000 per year to $15,000. Those are the people who are the face of Delta and NWA - if their morale, their service drop - the customers will be faced with unhappy, unmotivated people who don't give a hoot if the airline survives.As noted in another post on this thread - when the airline's people treat you like dirt, you don't fly with them any more if at all possible.The world's airline industries have never stabilized their business model.In the 50's props and early expensive jets made air travel the luxury of the rich.In the 60's the introduction of cost effective jets made travel by average working class people possible - but the airlines had an inefficient flight network.In the 70's the introduction of the jumbo jet exploded the airline travel world - airlines and terminal struggled to keep capacity to meet demand.In the 80's the airline industry started to deregulate - the business competition became much tougher - the hub and spoke system developed.In the 90's the low cost carriers and regional jets made compeition even more cut throat. The big airlines found that their main business customers began to worry more about costs than service and convenience.In this decade - aging fleets, labor agreements created for a different airline world, and agreements to serve small cities are catching up with the big carriers.The future of aviation in the US in my opinion:WalMart-ization of the industryCheap flights from only big cities (30-40 max) on aircraft which look like over crowded cattle cars - you have to buy every bag of peanuts - you have to pay extra for each checked bag.Most smaller cities with terminals of 10-15 gates will lose all their airline service, or be down to a few flights per week by one carrier at double / triple the current price. There will be eight or ten US states with NO scheduled airline service.The industry will shrink to about 75% of it's current size with two or three major carriers - which will include Southwest Airlines as one survivor.Many airlines will pop up to start service - then disappear within a year.But I could be wrong - though poorer service, fewer choices and higher prices seem to be certain.

[Guest]

I've not flown Delta much or recently (they're not very big between Amsterdam, London, and southern Spain which is what I mostly fly :)) but what I have flown with them was excellent.Good service, friendly staff, decently timely (especially knowing European airlines).Northwest much the same.It would be sad to see them go but the US market is oversaturated with airlines.Supply outstrips demand by quite a bit on many routes, as a result loadfactors on those routes are low, leading to loss of income.The government bailout, while somewhat understandable as those airlines are a strategic asset in an age where the military has to rely on civilian resources to transport its men and materials, will in the end turn out to be counterproductive as it will only deepen the crisis by perpetuating the worst run airlines, thus preventing the market from stabilising.

[Guest Mapper]

When you say, "all of that sounds great to me", do you mean everything that I mentioned is perfectly OK and you will happily take it? Please tell me that is NOT the case. If it is..WOW...the future of professional pilots is doomed. I assume that you're not alone feeling this way, huh? No wonder the regionals are packed with young kids who just want to "fly". Be sure to tell the bank you want to buy a house with your logbook too.What makes you think being a pilot is the "most rewarding job in the world"? I'd love to know why this is. Have you ever been paid as a pilot? Tell you what. First go get a flying job and spend at least 5 years doing that. Then you can tell me what the value of a rewarding job is. I promise you won't feel the same way. Shinny jets and uniforms don't mean anything.Mike

[Guest TWVA395]

You know what? It sounds amazing, I look forward to every bit of it. The money isn't good, but that will change. And FYI: You only invest a lot of money into something unless you're truely passionate about it, so I guess that means professional pilots are doomed everywhere.Well, no, that doesn't mean anything. You think we would be flying today if the Wright Brothers said: "yo, let's go flying!" "Sweet!" "Oh no, there's a problem here, we're out of money and all that and we don't have the right parts." "Well, it was a good run!"That's not how it happened.I'm enthusiastic about flying for an airline, there are some downs and some ups. The pay being one of them. It's kind of interesting, one of my friends... his dad is #142 on the seniority list for Alaskan and he loves his job. He has almost 27,000 hours and when we talked, he wouldn't take another job. He too, is a graduate from Embry-Riddle. I have a lot connections in the industry and each one of them loves their job.http://www.kthxdone.com/images/kw_ft.jpgKen Weik [link:maam.org|MAAM-SIM][link:library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=root&SearchTerm=kenneth+weik&Sort=Added&ScanMode=0&Go=Change+View]My AFCADs

[Guest Alaskapilot2]

Listen up Mike,I am a Captain for Alaska Airlines and have been looking through these posts. I saw what you said and I had to register just to tell you how stupid you are. First off, who gives you the right to take on a current student at Embry Riddle. I went to UND, and know how difficult it is at both schools. Graduates from both schools become the best pilots is the world. I have a slight indication that you play flight simulator games and write on these posts all day and work at night. You probably work as a telemarketer who only dreams of flying but was too much of a whimp to actually take the time and money to learn to fly. Also, I have a pretty strong feeling that whenever you travel on commercial airliners, you think you know exactly what the pilot is doing at any given time. How do I know, I know because I have sat next to people like you, (those who think they know everything about flying) when I have to deadhead. If you don't know what thet means, post it, I am sure a real pilot could answer it for you. I have to sit next you people who talk about flying virtual airlines and tell me about routes and how fun it is. You know what is really fun? Strapping a 737 to your #### and, flying at 41,000 feet at 600 miles per hour carrying 150 some people. That is fun...not pretending that you are flying. Unlike you, I do not get to get up every five minutes and cook another hotpocket, I sit in my Captain's chair and I make $150 an hour. How much do you make flying Mikey????? I hope you take this well, if not, I do not care, see you in the virtual skies, oh wait, I don't do that gay ####!~Captain Bill of Alaska AirlinesBoeing 737-400-700-800-900

[bic 44]

>I've not flown Delta much or recently (they're not very big>between Amsterdam, London, and southern Spain which is what I>mostly fly :)) but what I have flown with them was excellent.>Good service, friendly staff, decently timely (especially>knowing European airlines).>Northwest much the same.>>It would be sad to see them go but the US market is>oversaturated with airlines.>Supply outstrips demand by quite a bit on many routes, as a>result loadfactors on those routes are low, leading to loss of>income.>>The government bailout, while somewhat understandable as those>airlines are a strategic asset in an age where the military>has to rely on civilian resources to transport its men and>materials, will in the end turn out to be counterproductive as>it will only deepen the crisis by perpetuating the worst run>airlines, thus preventing the market from stabilising.I paid $600 to fly KEWR to KSTL recently non stop on Continental. Well, it was an emergency trip. But I had been shopping for awhile, cheapest I could find was in August for $250, 7.5 hours through Chicago. If I had gone the cheapest route, it would have been around $450 on ATA again 7.5 hours through Chicago. I looked last year at going from London to Rome, that would have been $200 or so my wife AND I! Something is amiss with US versus European airlines.

[Bob Scott 7,720]

>I am a Captain for Alaska Airlines Yeah, sure you are.>I saw what you said and I had to register>just to tell you how stupid you are. First off, who gives you>the right to take on a current student at Embry Riddle. I went>to UND, and know how difficult it is at both schools.>Graduates from both schools become the best pilots is the>world. Oh yeah, ERAU and UND have been robbing Harvard, Princeton, and the Air Force Academy of their best and brightest students for years. Too funny.>Also, I have a pretty strong>feeling that whenever you travel on commercial airliners, you>think you know exactly what the pilot is doing at any given>time. How do I know, I know because I have sat next to people>like you, (those who think they know everything about flying)>when I have to deadhead. I'm sure the odds of encountering a large number of virtual airline simmers in first class where the captains do most of their deadheading is very high. >You know>what is really fun? Strapping a 737 to your #### and, flying>at 41,000 feet at 600 miles per hour Miles per hour, huh? >I sit in my Captain's chair and I make $150 an>hour. Would this be while playing Monopoly in your "Captain's chair?" >~Captain Bill of Alaska AirlinesCaptain Bill...Captain Kangaroo...whatever...Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

[Guest PK88NW]

No! Delta and Northwest are the only two airlines I have ever flown.Northwest filed Chapter 11 in order to restructure their company. Contract talks with the AMFA have ended (according to the news here in Detroit)I have no details on Delta, though.IMO: Northwest will pull out of it after they restructure their company. Delta will have a harder time to get out of Chapter 11.Regards,Patrick