Would you be able to land an Airliner in an emergency ?

[Guest]

Possibly on one of those huge dry lake beds like Groom Lake, but on a runway I think it would be real messy. Of course it depends on how restrictive your definition of "landing" is. I could definitely get the airplane on to the ground!

[Guest]

I'll give this a try. Ha! I think first of all: under your circumstances --you have to give it the old college try! Right? Come on, you have to try. Now, you are the most qualified among the passengers, or you are just gung ho anyway--you jump in there. You take over command. Now, your success truly depends on a lot of things, such as: weather, time of day, airport availability, communications to the ground so on. Lot of factors can make you, or break you here. There are others, but I think the three most important are daylight hours, having decent weather, and an airport within reasonable distance with plenty of runway. Now I can take flight simulator, or fly II, and get a squeaker of a landing on the first try in say the 777 or 747. I can do that with out the use of V speeds. I just calculate some numbers that I know are probably a tad high and go for them. Twenty or thirty knots over won't hurt me if I have the runway in front of me is how I figure. And once I am on the deck, I can bleed off the excess speed pretty easily. I do have one or two advantages over most of our fellows simmers. I have over 15K hours also (one other fellow did too) and I have half of it in the King Airs. The 90, 100, A100, and 200. About 65 hours in the DC-3 but only pulling gear and flaps. I have been flying since 1956, and was a CFI for more than 30 years. I also flew dozens of different (small, under 12,500 lb gross) airplanes. Ha. So that helps to give me some degree of confidence. Ha. But flyers, come on now--we have to give it the old "I can do this" try. Huh? I think that there were an awful lot of sensible answers given here. Hope this is one . Keep Em Flying.

[Guest]

Excellent response Clay! I enjoyed reading it.Rob

[Guest Tim13]

Hand flying, it is unlikely that any simmer or small plane pilot would succeed alone. With the coaching of a training captain, maybe a GA pilot could get it on the airport surface with minimal injuries.The realistic scenario is the training captain walking you through the autopilot all the way through an ILS. All that you'd have to "fly" (ie don't make any large control inputs) is the final 100 to 200 feet to the runway area, so this scenario would be possible.Tim13

[gosta 0]

If I were rich enough, I think a good way to try it would be to book a full-motion simulator, have it put in cruise on autopilot somewhere, and then be left alone in the cockpit to land the thing, with no instructor or outside help via the radios, just you, the charts that are on board, and the manual. If you can pull that one off, maybe you stand a chance in real life, considered the added stress, but also the help you'll get from the ground. Unfortunately, I don't have $500 or so to waste on crashing in a full-motion simulator (Also, would they be willing to leave you alone in the cockpit?).Cheers,Gosta.

[Datalink 26]

I would certainly give it a go. I've had the chance to fly a full size B777 simualtor at BA's training centre, and I managed to land the aircraft on the centre-line of the runway everytime. These were obvisiously VFR conditions and manual approaches, but with someone at the other end of the radio being able to talk you down as well, I would say I could stand a good chance of landing in 1 piece.I also think it depends on how much you know about aircraft in general, such as their size/complexity, so you would be able to judge when the wheels touch down etc. Some of the older planes, such as the MD-80's, I would struggle a bit more, as I'm not familar with that type, but modern planes are 'fail safe' as they can be programmed to land themselves.Anyway as they say "any landing you walk away from is a good landing"AK

[Guest]

hmmm..I like to say Yes. But>>>First let me say this....with nothing but sim experince I went for flight lessons....on my introductory flight (C-152) I took-off and landed 4 times...the instructor did not touch the yoke once...he only helped me with the rudder since I was not used to it. I made 4 circuits and made 4 landings...3 greasers. I was also comfortable with the cockpit becasue I knew where everything was and what their function was. The instrucor only helped with rudder and things like, when to turn base...what speed to reduce to etc..Now..I know that airliners are in a different ball park then Cessnas..but in the case of an emergency where the pilots are hurt but the plane is still fully intact I believe I can bring the plane in safely. I will probably not be able to make a textbook approach and use all the right procedures and make a greaser landing but I do believe I can bring it in so that everyone walks away. I mean I have the theory that I need to keep the plane in the air and flying. I am sure that with the help of the ATC and a pilot on the other end of the micophone I could point the plane towards an airport, fly an approach and probably land on concrete or asphalt...or I can be talked into engaging the autopilot and make an automated landing.I think that I have the theory needed to save plane load of passengers in a fully functioning plane and calm weather. Off-course if the plane is damaged and has failures while in the middle of a thunderstorm...it would be a different story.The last thing is fear. I have no clue if I was faced with a situation like that how I would react. I would probably be scared as hell and scared to touch the controls...and when I am scared I'll forget hings or over-do things...To make the long story short....If the plane is intact, weather is OK and if I can keep my nerves under control then I think I could put the plane down so that the people can walk away even without someone telling me what to do...except tell me where the airort is. I have the basics needed to save the people...probably not the plane though.. :-shy Interesting thread.Take careMike

[teropa 4]

Hi,Very interesting...I have no PPL or above, but have flown Cessnas and Pipers from the right seat quite lot, with no problems.I had a go in a full-motion, level D MD-11 simulator 6 months ago.Did a few approaches and takeoffs and landed without a problem.I admit that it was quite different from what I expected but IMO it wasn't anything so special you all keep talking about. Airplanes are airplanes, regardless of how big they are. The basic functions and laws apply to airliners as well as C172s.I think that given the right plane (say 767) and some time to analyze the situation, I would have no problem bringing the beast down.Tell me if I'm missing something, but here's an example, and I'll use the 767 as I'm a PIC767 fanatic ;):Both pilots out, plane flying on AP.- Left seat, check that AP is on and check also what it's doing from the FMC, MCP etc.- OK, we're on LNAV and VNAV modes cruizing along the route seen in FMC, FL380- contact ATC and declare an emergency- I would be given instructions to change to another frequency and would soon be given instructions by a real 767 pilot.- 50% chance is that I would be given instructions to reprogram new waypoint to FMC, once the real pilot knew that I'm familiar with it.But I still wouldn't do it "alone" as the pilot would still get me through every step of the reprogramming to minimize all errors.- 50% chance is that I would be only given instructions to use MCP hdg sel, ALT (V/S) and speed modes, since it's more simple that way.I really don't know which would it be, FMC or direct MCP modes, but in autopilot definately. _All the way_.- I would be directed into a CAT III airfield/rwy and be setup for an autoland. I would only have to use: * FMC (if not for programming, then at least checks for fuel, app speeds etc) * gear lever * flaps lever * autobrake switch * speedbrake lever * MCP as a whole + Nav1 freq/crs selectors * Transponder (to code 7500 I believe)In short:1. check that plane stable on AP (A/T on, F/D on, _some_ lateral and vertical modes on), and contact ATC and get instructions from ATC and a pilot and do the following with their help:2. check fuel and position from FMC (also check warning lights on panel)3. squawk 75004. hdg sel in MCP (what I'm told)5. ALT and V/S in MCP (what I'm told)6. speed in MCP (again, what I'm told)7. lower flaps at appropriate speeds 8. tune given CAT III ILS rwy data in Nav1 (freq/crs)9. select ILS display10. capture loc, gs / activate APP-mode11. lower gear at appropriate phase12. arm autobrake (max) and speedbrake 13. activate L,C,R autopilots above 1500 AGL14. check final approach speed from FMC, dial it.15a enjoy the ride down and check the "become a hero" in after landing checks ;)15b try to use reverser thrust (might be a little tricky mechanically tho, but odds are that the rwy is so long that brakes are enough to do the trick)ALL THE TIME MONITOR AIRSPEED AND ALTITUDEThe list above seems premeditated (!) and something that would be very difficult to remember etc., but I really don't think that it would be more difficult than that.With a plane other than 767 (or other than a Boeing), it would be (for me at least) a different story.Comments?cheers,Tero

[KevinAu 441]

One comment. Don't squawk 7500. That would be "hijack". You're thinking of 7700, "emergency".

[Guest]

If you fly any type of aircraft you might have a chance..if you are only a sim pilot..no matter how many million hrs in FS you have..no chance-trust me guys you wont be able to locate the runway!!! airport looks very vague from up there!! leave alone throttle, perspective, flare etc, etcSantanu Nandy

[teropa 4]

Kevin,Yes thank you. I didn't know which one was it.. of course the wrong one :).But that wouldn't be a serious mistake, if there's nothing else ?Tero

[Guest Matthias1975]

You said you know how to fly 767 PIC, so please don

[Guest]

I disagree. I have always been able to spot airports from the air, even when when I did not know there should be an airport there...on my 1st lesson I just noticed it and I asked my instructor..What airport is that? and he looked for a few seconds on the horizon and said....Oh, That's Pitt Meadows, how did you spot it from so far away?Maybe i'm just a special case...In school we used to get all these small maps with enhanced colors to show farmland and forrests etc...and I always was able to spot the runways of all the local airports as aell as the street I lived on...my teacher and everyone else could never see enything except a city or a forrest...they looked at me like I awas a freak.... :-lolTake careMikeEDIT: I forgot to add that even if you can't locate the runway...the atc can vecor you towards it and eventualy you will see it when it's in front of you....oryou can be talked into engaging the autopilot to land the plane.

[KevinAu 441]

One of the anecdotes to come out of post 9/11 analysis was that a KAL 747 was almost shot down by Alaskan F-15s that day because the crew was mistakenly squawking 7500.An airliner squawking 7500 with a non-crewmember being heard on the radio would most likely be sent down in flames this day and age. Even if the voice was from somebody claiming to be just a msfs pilot trying to help. So it would be a fairly serious boo-boo to put 7500 in that box. Your last words would most likely be "No, wait, you don't understand."

[Guest]

Hi allI have really enjoyed reading some of the articles on this subject and decided I would add my two pennarth worth as well.First and foremost please no flack over the fact I am talking about yet another simulator I am writing it as it happened.My good lady wife has blessed me with a number of sessions on the full 12 million pound flight simulator 737-200 and the BAE146. The last couple of times I have done this I recieved remarks from serving pilots asking which company I flew for? so I must have been putting up a good show. When I tried to tell them that I was not a pilot and that my experience was mainly aquired from home PC Flight simulation programms I was greeted with total disbelief. Which brings us to the question Could I land a 767 in an emergency? I don't know, however since I would be the only chance of getting this bird down I would certainly be a much better chance than a complete novice who knew nothing at all. The debate will no doubt continue. FLY SAFELY wings737