Just Flight A320/A319 any thoughts?

[avgaskoolaid 292]

Any thoughts on these new planes? By the way, I am not too interested in the realism factor, so please dont post things like 'The FMC is a joke' or 'Its like a default a320'. Im more focoused on graphical realism, performance, sounds, etc... So thanks for any input!

[Chock 17,769]

I bought their A320, A319 and A318 with the intention of tweaking them up with bits from the Wilco 'Buses because they were cheap and are FSX native. This is more of a fun project than a desperate attempt to create a masterpiece, so the fact that the JF 'Buses are inexpensive is what swung it. Essentially I bought them 'for fun' and to play around with.The JF Airbuses are certainly better than the default FSX Airbus in terms of looks, with much better VCs, although they are not 100 percent completely accurate, being more like an older A320 than the ones produced these days, so the instruments are a bit out of place for the A318, which has very modern instruments in reality, nevertheless, this is a compromise based on their low price which perhaps only rivet counters would be really concerned with, and they do get very good frame rates, which is of more importance for a 'lite' airliner.The FMC is extremely simple to use (that's not a criticism incidentally, it's a welcome plus point for a 'lite' treatment of an airliner), so it will load up and fly an FSX plan or one from FS Build etc. The pages of the FMC's CDU, whilst not accurate representations of the real Airbus FMC, are well done and make it easy to tune the radios, configure the thing for take off or landing and all that sort of stuff, although that does mean the autopilot isn't a representation of how a real Airbus autopilot operates. still, it works and is easy to use.JF appear to have had a small stab at modeling some aspects of the Airbus flight protection system, but not in a very major way and in fact the flight model actually makes the thing harder to land manually than most of the default airliners because the thing floats a long way down the runway and refuses to stop flying until it is about to slam onto the runway, which means a heavy landing can ensue if you are landing it manually and not paying attention. On the other hand, the autoland capability will get it down just fine every time.The thing I like least about it is the autopilot, which has a habit of disengaging after a climb, and if you are busy and don't spot that it has done so, you can end up with a level bust or overspeed, which is a pain in the &@($* when using it for Air Hauler or Radar Contact, because that kind of thing costs you money in terms of repair expenses in AH, or has the controller whining at you in Radar Contact.So, for the money the JF airbuses are pretty good and recommended if you want a nice easy to learn jet airliner, but any resemblance to an Airbus (beyond the looks) is entirely coincidental. The Wilco Airbuses are still the most accurate ones you can get for FS as far as having a stab at systems goes, but the JF ones are cheap and fun to play around with. In short they look good and run at a high FPS, with a simple set of avionics that do the job well for a 'lite' airliner. If that's is what you expect and want, then you won't be disappointed.Al

[avgaskoolaid 292]

I bought their A320, A319 and A318 with the intention of tweaking them up with bits from the Wilco 'Buses because they were cheap and are FSX native. This is more of a fun project than a desperate attempt to create a masterpiece, so the fact that the JF 'Buses are inexpensive is what swung it. Essentially I bought them 'for fun' and to play around with.The JF Airbuses are certainly better than the default FSX Airbus in terms of looks, with much better VCs, although they are not 100 percent completely accurate, being more like an older A320 than the ones produced these days, so the instruments are a bit out of place for the A318, which has very modern instruments in reality, nevertheless, this is a compromise based on their low price which perhaps only rivet counters would be really concerned with, and they do get very good frame rates, which is of more importance for a 'lite' airliner.The FMC is extremely simple to use (that's not a criticism incidentally, it's a welcome plus point for a 'lite' treatment of an airliner), so it will load up and fly an FSX plan or one from FS Build etc. The pages of the FMC's CDU, whilst not accurate representations of the real Airbus FMC, are well done and make it easy to tune the radios, configure the thing for take off or landing and all that sort of stuff, although that does mean the autopilot isn't a representation of how a real Airbus autopilot operates. still, it works and is easy to use.JF appear to have had a small stab at modeling some aspects of the Airbus flight protection system, but not in a very major way and in fact the flight model actually makes the thing harder to land manually than most of the default airliners because the thing floats a long way down the runway and refuses to stop flying until it is about to slam onto the runway, which means a heavy landing can ensue if you are landing it manually and not paying attention. On the other hand, the autoland capability will get it down just fine every time.The thing I like least about it is the autopilot, which has a habit of disengaging after a climb, and if you are busy and don't spot that it has done so, you can end up with a level bust or overspeed, which is a pain in the &@($* when using it for Air Hauler or Radar Contact, because that kind of thing costs you money in terms of repair expenses in AH, or has the controller whining at you in Radar Contact.So, for the money the JF airbuses are pretty good and recommended if you want a nice easy to learn jet airliner, but any resemblance to an Airbus (beyond the looks) is entirely coincidental. The Wilco Airbuses are still the most accurate ones you can get for FS as far as having a stab at systems goes, but the JF ones are cheap and fun to play around with. In short they look good and run at a high FPS, with a simple set of avionics that do the job well for a 'lite' airliner. If that's is what you expect and want, then you won't be disappointed.Al

thank you very much. I have read your reply, and right away bought the A318 (at only $8, it's screaming impulse buy). I loaded it up, then punched in a flight from Milan-CDG. But i noticed that whenever I got past loading the flight plan in the FMC, I get a CTD. Do/Did you experience this problem?

[Chock 17,769]

Nope, it runs fine on my system, the A320, 319 and 318 all do and I've never had a CTD with any of them. I'd try re-downloading it and reinstalling it just in case there was some glitch during that process. some people have apparently reported it crashing when an IFR plan is loaded, so you might want to try and investigate that, but as I say, it has never bombed on me with with an IFR flight plan.Al

[ctiger 49]

If you go to JF support there is a patch for all three airbus that will fix the CTD using the FMC.  I have all three and as said they are fun to fly even though they are light aircraft.  I like them because I get good frames with my low end computer.  If you want something with all the bells and whistles, I would go with the Airbus 320 ext by aerosoft.

[Groovin_DC-10 50]

does the a319 have a autopilot like the a340? ( whiT THAT i mean that it could more or less fly itself from takeoff till aproach...you see i am a beginner and cind lazy at that :rolleyes:  :rolleyes: ) because if it does not i am out  

 

If you can fly the default jet liners from point A to point B, you shouldn't have any problems with the Airbus.  The A319 autopilot should be the same as the A340.  All Airbus planes have pretty much the same cockpits.

Just make sure you use ATC as it makes things easier.

The Just Flight Airbus is a "lite" aircraft, so it's perfect for beginners.

[FloG 148]

One thought, since the JustFlight Airbusses are pretty default: You could go for Thomas Ruth's freeware A330s and A340 (available from the AVSIM Library), which I believe are pretty similar to the JF ones when it comes to systems and especially the autopilot, and they are all very well modelled, especially for freeware.

(Maybe you can save up a few dollars this way and get the Aerosoft A32x instead of the JF A32x and A330/A340 some time?)

[Groovin_DC-10 50]

thanks for the reply i will definatly buy that then...

what i have in mind is buying the whole airbus fleet:

the a300-a310 series @ amazon

the a330-a340 series @ amazon

the a318, a319, a320, a321 @ just flight .com

you think that is a good idea?

 

( please dont recommend things like pmdg or aerosoft, i am a 13 year old novice and just want to begin slowly+ i dont have the cash..i have to rely on my dad for like half the things i buy....so keep that in mind )

 

It's really up to you.  Unless you're Airbus crazy, you can take a look at other "lite" offerings.  There is the CLS  747, 767, DC-10, MD-82, Just Flight L-1011.  All easy planes to fly.  Most of the CLS stuff come with very good step by step tutorials.  I learned on the DC-10 when I first got into flight simming.

 

There are certain issues that must be dealt with if you go with any of the CLS "lite" models, depending on your system configuration.  Some may force you to go with payware sound from TSS which are about $11 ea.

You will see CLS products being sold under Just Flight which is normal because JF is the distributor for quite a few CLS products.  Buy the one that's cheaper or whichever site you already have an account on.

 

Let me know before you go for any of those and I can tell you what fixes need to be done, other than service packs.  The sound, for instance, doesn't work properly in FSX and on some models, under Win7.  There is also the cockpit windows transparency (too dark on some models). 

 

Nice to see someone so young this much into aviation and simming.  You are a rare breed.  Stick around here, learn and enjoy.  I learned a lot about flying from the forums here.

 

Happy Flying

 

*edit* there is a sale on Just Flight's site right now.  $20 for two add ons.  One offering is the A340 500/600.  I just caught it and got the Airbus.  There's about 6hrs left.

[FloG 148]

 

 

Ok then, I am personally a airbus fan but another reason l want the airbus series is that they are fly by wire...I don't have to check every waypoint like with a dc-10 or am I wrong?

Just to make sure you don't mix those two things up: The need to check waypoints does not depend on FBW, at least as far as I am aware. FBW simply means that the input made with the yoke/sidestick is transfromed in to an electrical signal and a computer will then "tell the rudders what to do", unlike the older systems, where the pilot's control inputs were directly transmitted to the control surfaces via steel cables (which means more force necessary to make steering inputs).

What you probably meant, is the different navigational equipment (INS vs FMC). In that regard you are correct - the Airbus will follow a flightplan set in the FMC without you actually controlling the plane (well, that's hopefully not the way real pilots do it, but it's your sim, so everythign is allowed there B)), whereas the INS (which the DC-10 usually has) allowed only for a few waypoints ahead, so the pilots/navigators needs to be more concetrated on what he does, and when he does it.

However, as far as I know (I don't own the JustFlight DC-10) the JF DC-10 also has a rather "default-ish" autopilot logic, i.e. simply set up a flight plan in FSX, switch the NAV/GPS switch (which a real DC-10 does obviously not have) to GPS, set up the atuopilot and off you go, like with the default planes (or the CLS Airbusses).

 

Again, I'd like to point out some freeware options in this context: As stated before, before buying the rather old CLS A330/A340, take a look at Thomas Ruth's versions, which have more or less the same features, but are free. Secondly, Mr Ruth also made a DC-10 (which IIRC has some flaws in thefligth dynamics, though), which definitely works like the default planes

 

On a last sidenote, I'd like to tell you, that most any "modern" airliner has an autopilot. This dates back even to old planes like the DC-3, but of course the level of automation has changed. Nowadays, most AP-equipped GA plane can do better than the DC-3 could 60 years ago.

[z06z33 763]

I have there aerosoft airbus x extended its great with an awesome VC and working raas

[FloG 148]

 

 

my dad will buy cls b747-200/300 and a340-500/600 for me somewhere in february or march, or maybe aerlier if i am lucky

Don't rush with the CLS747! They are currently reworking it, and I believe that waiting for the newer version will be worth it.

 

 

 

but i am aware of the just flight airbus collection, which includes the a300 series and a310 series, but i am sceptical about it, does anybody know of a review or maybe have it themselves and could recommend ( or not ) that package?

I don't have any of those, but Just Flight as mainly very low systems fidelity (which is not per se a bad thing, but it's something to consider when you think about the price), so - again - my recommendation would be to use freeware instead. Even more so, since as far as I remember that particlar package is quite dated, hence the visual appearance might not be that good.

[Groovin_DC-10 50]

ok thanks for the explanation, i will look into other planes

what i am gonna get for sure is the dc-10, i read  the avsim review on it and it is just what i was looking for

the only thing is is that i dont know wich airbus aircraft to get

my first choice plan right now is :

 

in january i get:

 

just flight a318

just flight dc 10

carenado b58 baron ( small turboprop for touch and go or just flying around )

orbx-ftx pacific north west scenery ( i heard that fsx default scenery sucks   <_< )

all amounting to $72 ( i pay half and my dad pays half )

 

in february:

 

ftx global, i would like to be able to fly anywhere and dont be complaining about missing cities, towns or forests :lol:

but it is a whopping $90, me paying half again

 

where i am stuck is march, i was thinking of:

 

cls ( sold by just flight ) a319, a320 and a321

but i am aware of the just flight airbus collection, wich includes the a300 series and a310 series, but i am sceptical about it,  does anybody know of a review or maybe have it themselves and could recommend ( or not ) that package? it's tempting because it is $ 19.99 on amazon while normally its $45!!

any thoughts on that?

 

ps my dad will buy cls b747-200/300 and a340-500/600 for me somewhere in february or march, or maybe aerlier if  i am lucky :rolleyes:

 

Not bad.  Looks like you have a plan set.

Now, this is a hit and miss kind of thing.  When it comes to CLS/Just Flight, there is a chance the sound from the DC-10 and 747 won't work properly.  The problem is that external sounds can be deafening and the sound in the cockpit can sound very strange (phasey).  It seems to affect mostly Win7 users.

Both the DC-10 and 747 sound is no good for my system and I had to replace them using payware sound from Turbine Sound Studios.  But the 747 sound works great for me in FS2004.

 

The best way to tell if the sound is working good for you is to first go to external view.  If it's REALLY loud, that's one sign.  Next would be to taxi and make turns.  If the sound goes all weird as soon as you make a turn, it's not working properly.

 

Another issue with the DC-10 is the tint on the cockpit windows.  They are VERY dark in FSX but great in FS9.  If you go to CLS's site and check the DC-10 forum, there is a sticky on a replacement file that will completely eliminate the dark tint.

 

The DC-10 is a pretty old product and you will see it with the lower quality textures in the virtual cockpit.  But the external models are excellent.

 

I also have the Airbus Collection you mentioned.  It contains the A330 200/300 and A340 200/300 with a huge number of liveries.

I personally enjoy it, but it's hard to say if I would recommend it.  It really depends on your standards.  Like Florian mentioned, it's an older add on, like the DC-10 and showing their age.  But, also like the DC-10, the external models look great.

 

You can try out some freeware first if you want to.

 

It also has the sound issue I mentioned earlier.  I've replaced the sound set with Turbine Sound Studios for all my CLS/Just Flight add ons because of this.

 

I think the updated 747 will be a service pack.  In case you do get the 747 and Airbus Collection, keep in mind that there is an option to set your controls to beginner or expert (same with the A340 500/600) by clicking on the windows "start" tab and the JF/CLS icon.  I believe they are set to beginner as default.

[ellipirelli 1]

Have you tried the Project Airbus 32X series yet? Their are all freeware and ideal for a starter. Look in the different libraries since you can find them in different variants. Actual V3 features better systems and FMC. Summarizing pretty good freeware. Once you are familiar und would like to get more go directly with the Aerosoft busses.

[FloG 148]

 

 

But on that just flight-cls b747, is that not a patch that you can download? Because I am gonna download the CLS b747 from the just flight website, or is it something you have to wait for to get?

Far as I remember, it's gonna be a completely new version, so one would have to pay a sceond time (although I could imagine that they offer a discount for customers of the previous versions) -so since the new versino has been announced quite some time ago, I'd strongly recommend to wait for the new one!

 

 

 

What I am gonna do instead is by the Wilco pub airbus series ( volume 1 and 2 ) which is much more superb, based on flightsim and avsim reviews

As good as those review might be, the Wilco Airbus series is old, very old! And especially for the A32x series there are better solutions availble, because the Wilco ones have some odd things sometimes IIRC. Also, since you said you're kinda on a budget, I'd not really recommned the (expensive) Wilco series. They are reather complex, but yet inaccurate if you compare them to the AXE, which is often said to be the best available Airbus for FSX at this time.

 

Now, please don't misunderstand thsi, it is in no way intended to be rude or offensive, I simply don't find another way to put it: You say you can't/don't want to spend a whole lot of money, yet you keep finding addons you want to buy instead of listening to previous advice of getting comparable freeware versions - this is something I don't understand. I totally understand your situation of being limited in the amount of money you can spend -and I find it really cool that your father supports you there: I started simming when I was a few years older than you, so I had some money availble on my own, but noone in my familiy really understood (nor do they now) what this hobby is all about, so I was al on my own.

But for this exact reason, you should really consider freeware planes instead of buying the oldest (and sometimes really not the best) aircraft. At least that's what I would do in your situation, and what I in fact did 5 years ago (and still do). And jsut because something is shared with the community for free does not mean it is worthless - especially the planes I mentioned before are top notch quality, they really match with the CLS products! And since there is a lot of options you can spend your money on if you take this hobby seriously, you might really start abit slower and save your money, either for sceneries, or if you know what planes you're really interested in, to be able to buy the best rendition availble in a few months.

 

One last advice: It's really not a great idea to buy more than one plane at a time, you won't be able to fly them as often as you would like to, so I would suggest to buy one, learn that one, fly it for a few weeks, and when you get bored buy the next one - I know from my own experience that this might be hard, but believe me, I have loads of planes I never learned properly, and that are simply in my virtual hanagar, beacuse I got three of them in a sale for a few bucks off!

 

Again, apologies, if the second paragraph sounds rude, that's really not what I want it to be - it's simply me expressing some thoughts, hoping to save you some money.

 

Regards, 

Flo

[Stijn 21]

I have the JF A32x series, the CLS A330-340 and 340-500/600 series, the Wilco Evolution 1 and 2 and A380, Project Airbus' A32x and 380 and Thomas Ruth's A330's and 340's.

 

I don't know which model is sold by Amazon, so I'm leaving that one out.

 

My view:

- if you want a slightly improved version over the native A321, then go for Project Airbus' 32x and 380 and Thomas Ruth's 330's and 340's. Their improvement is mainly visual. You can further add sound files to enhance your simming experience. I don't see that much difference with JustFlight's A32x series.

- the CLS 330's and 340's are one step up from these freeware AC with added FMC capabilities, but they're beginning to show their age. The Wilco's are indeed old by comparison. In addition, CLS has good support, Wilco's support was non-existant when I needed it.

- if you want to step up, go to Aerosoft's Airbus Extended or Blackboxsimulation's A320 and 330. Aerosoft's 320 is excellent on the eye, but is not more than a medium depth simulation (that is also where they position themselves). The BBS models are still under development (with their flaws) that will end up probably higher on the realism scale than Aerosoft's. Check Aerosoft and BBS out to see whether they meet your expectations.

- if you have patience and want the most realistic Bus, wait for Flightsimlabs' A320. However, there is no launch date there.

- stay clear of Abacus, IMHO their Airbuses are really bad.

 

Airbuses are very complex to simulate due to their systems and expect to be pay much more as you expect higher realism.

 

Good luck with your selection.