ARRRGHHH! I can't take it anymore! (re: crosswind landings)

[Guest Quagmire]

Hey everybody.Sorry but I had to let off steam. I have been simming since FS95 and the same thing always happens in crosswind landings. I have hoped with each version the problem would be fixed but it is always the same.The problem is that every runway in the virtual FS world is ice coated, or seems that way. Have you ever noticed that you can land with a 20-30 degree crab off the center line and the plane will continue to crab down the runway even though the wheels are angled to the left or right! Thats right, your plane will slide as if the wheels are on ice.OK, whatever. Kick out the crab and land as if you are worried that your tires will be torn off their rims (even though they won't) if you don't straighten out. Well the ice follies will continue as now your plane will drift downwind as if it were still in the air! The only way to prevent skidding off the runway is to crab back into the wind and allow the wheels to skid off center all the way down the runway.I have had some real life (PPL) training and my instructor always told me to land on the upwind wheel. In real life that works great as the friction between the tire and the pavement holds the plane from sliding off center while you keep the nose straight with the rudder. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE IN FS95, FS98, FS2000, FS2002, FS2004. WHY DON'T THEY FIX THIS!I also fly in IL2/Forgotten battles. In that sim when the wheels touch they want to travel in the direction they are pointed! Just like in real life. If Oleg Maddox can figure this out why can't Bill Gates!!!!!!!!!!!!Is there any 3rd party stuff out there to fix this? FSUIPC had a great feature where it would set the surface wind to zero when the wheels touched but there is a problem now. I have read that the latest FSUIPC doesn't have the auto taxi wind feature anymore. HELP!Thanks,Quagmire

[robertmpratt 0]

I'm also frustrated by the unrealistic crosswinds in FS9 (and the two previous versions I've used).First of all, a 6kt wind 30 degrees off the nose is no biggie, really, even in a Piper J-3 Cub. But in FS9--and it seems worse to me in FS9 than previously--such a wind requires a great deal of crosswind correction.Second, I haven't found any FS9 aircraft--freeware or payware--that does a good job of simulating real life aircraft response using the wing-low method of crosswind correction. I'm a private pilot (just a handful of weeks from my commercial flight test, actually), and I can safely land in a direct crosswind (90 degrees off of the nose) up to about 15kt gusting to 20kt in tricycle gear aircraft, and I can make safe wheel landings up to about 15kt (on the nose, maybe a few knots less direct crosswind) in conventional gear aircraft. In FS9, I can't manage to null out drift at all, so I just crab all the way down and kick rudder at the last instant before touchdown. Like you, I've noticed that there's almost no penalty for having drift on touchdown.FS9 manages to do a good job of simulating the weathervaning tendency of aircraft on the ground, but the influence of weathervaning, p-factor, prop precession and torque during the takeoff run in conventional gear aircraft in FS9 is way out of whack--much too forceful, IMO.Maybe it's a settings thing (I'm using FSMeteo, and my realism settings are "hard" with all the real things like gyrodrift and nonautorudder). I dunno. Maybe someone can post here if they have some good settings tweaks to make crosswinds more realistic.BTW, your note that "when the wheels touch they want to travel in the direction they are pointed" isn't realistic for all aircraft. Conventional gear aircraft will try very hard to swing into the wind on touchdown unless you completely null out drift on touchdown.Rob Prattrpratt@wordandsound.com

[MD83 1]

MSFS isn't very good when it comes to crosswind landings :( ... the aircraft slide like racing cars ..... this doesn't happen in Airline Simulator 2 ;) AS2 has REAL flight dynamics, albeit with limited graphics! :) (www.nomissoft.com)http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic.ph...4/arm_bears.jpg

[Guest ej74]

I agree. It seems strange that they havent fixed the sliding motion on landing, you can land 90dg offset from runway direction without a hinch on the wheels. The stock aircraft with FS9 does not do a good job on crosswind correction/sideslip. From my experience there are a few aircraft that are worth mentioning that are very realistic on crosswinds.Realair Bateman C172(Freeware, handle crosswinds very well, my favourite aircraft for patterns)Miltons Dash 7(Freeware, turboprop, very nice aircraft that can handle 20 knots crosswind with ease, im sure with this one you can also do 40-50 knots crosswinds)Fanda Dash 8-300(Freeware, a blast)Since i havent tried any payware planes i cannot comment on them but i higly recommend the freeware above,they are well worth it.

[robert young 2,897]

The problem is not so much cross winds IN THE AIR, which I think FS handles commendably well, it is the GROUND handling that causes the problem. This is historically a rather weak point in flight simulator, since FS4 which had seperate aerodynamics for air and ground handling.The problem focuses on the fact that yaw in FS is treated the same whether you are airborne or on the ground. Thus the fluidity of air yaw is repeated on the ground, and at high taxi speeds upwards, the aircraft does not take into account the LATERAL influence of ground friction, though it does acknowledge pitch (ie: the suspension reacts to clattering onto the runway).Thus, when you want to steer on the ground at anything other than slow taxi speed, you will see the aircraft behave as though it was in a fluid - and not in firm contact with the ground.Some designers ingnore this and make do. Personally I reduce yaw inertia to compensate, but this doesn't solve the problem much, and other people have criticised me for "cheating". Well, the whole of simulation is cheating really!!Rob Young

[Guest Quagmire]

Great replies. I am glad I am not the only one who noticed this. Like I had said before, the previous versions of FSUIPC had an "auto taxi-wind" feature which allowed the wind to drop to zero when the wheels touched. Not very realistic in terms of crosswind ground handling but it does stop the skidding off the runway. It is funny that you need to "re-crab" back into the wind while on the ground just like you were before touchdown! Unfortuneatly, ol' Peter Dawson seems to think the problem is solved in FS2004 since the new version (the first payware version) does not have this feature.Are there any utilities like FSUIPC for FS2004 that will turn off, or correct, this wind issue while on the ground? I hope so.Quagmire

[michal 44]

>Are there any utilities like FSUIPC for FS2004 that will turn>off, or correct, this wind issue while on the ground? I hope>so.don't think so. The fact that FS doesn't have a seperate ground simulation is responsible for all sort of problems including apparently poor simulation of ground friction which results in excessive power needed for taxiing jets/turboprops.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[StoneC0ld 5]

You're not the only one...... I've landed 7x7's in crosswinds and sent the plane into slides almost as bad as a car spinning out on an icy road...Another little thing I've noticed when you're on the ground, it's almost as if you get blown in the wrong directio for the wind.... Example, the windsock points left so the wind blows left, and the shift-Z verifies this. But for some reason, on my takeoff roll I get blown to the right and have to steer left.........

[Guest Jimbofly]

Hi Stonecold,Actually, you don't get blown in the wrong direction. The reaction of the aircraft pointing right when the wind is blowing left is actually realistic and it's known as the wind-vailing effect. What happens is that the wind strikes the tail at an angle and deflects it in one direction, while the aircraft pivots and points towards the direction of the wind to nullify that effect.In real life pilots need to be aware of where the wind is blowing and the easiest way of doing this is to feel where the aircraft wants to point while on the ground. The direction the aircaft wants to point is the direction the wind is blowing from.Hope this helps!James

[Flyer Ken 0]

>The fact that FS doesn't have a seperate>ground simulation is responsible for all sort of problems>including apparently poor simulation of ground friction which>results in excessive power needed for taxiing>jets/turboprops.>>Michael J.Yes, that and the horrible behavoir of float planes in the water too. Sure would be nice if MS could fix that some day.

[StoneC0ld 5]

ahhhhh... didn't think of the tail.... :D

[jagabom 21]

see below

[jagabom 21]

MD83, how is AS2? I liked subLogic and am contemplating buying AS2.JimCYWG

[Guest Smiley]

Is "Weathervaning" the term you are looking ?If the gear on the virtual ac were susceptible to damage along with the tires then you'd try harder to NOT land off the runway heading with a crab. It's been a while since I've done any weather flying in FS9 but IIRC the approach and landing can be thought of as correct. It's the lack of damage during improper use of stick and rudder that is in need of change.:)