Defeating Pirates should not be a chore for honest buyers

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Those of you who find re-installs to be too difficult need to take some responsibility and take a few minutes to create a backup install disk:1. Go spend a few $$ and buy 1 DVD-RW disk. It will already be in a plastic case so, no you won't need to spend a few extra cents for a case.2. Gather all the install files for your programs.3. Put the DVD in your drive and burn the install files to the disk.4. Gather all your key code mails or use Notepad to create one text document that lists the codes. You won't even need to type them, just copy and paste from your e-mails. No, you won't need Office or anything like that, so this is free and takes, oh 10 minutes or so.5. Now burn that file to the DVD.6. If you purchase new programs you can still use the same disk and add stuff to it. You can even add stuff to the license document and re-burn the file.7. Take a marker and write FS Programs on the disk and place it in the plastic case.8. Put the case with the DVD in it on the shelf right next to your FS disks.Now, there you are. You have everything in one place all ready for your re-installs. You won't need to e-mail a single person and wait for a response or depend on a companies server to hold your programs for you. Or you won't even need to pay for a backup service, what a concept!Yes, I know that sometimes backups can go bad and even disks can't be read from one computer to another, but most of these re-install issues can be solved if the owner takes a little bit of personal responsibility.

Yes I do all of these things but the problem is I move back and forth from Toronto to Wellington, New Zealand.Right now I am currently in Vancouver enroute to New Zealand. This trip I saved my FSX backups in three places just in case.One is on a hard drive packed away in a Rubbermaid case with my Saitek Controllers. The other is rolled up in a pair of Levis Jeans in my luggage. The third is stored on my laptop that I am taking as carry on.It is just a lot of added stress if you lose a copy so I have three copies for this trip. There is also the ‘what if’ scenarios that roll through your head. I don’t like saving to DVD’s as they are more easily smashed, cracked or damaged compared to a hard drive. A hard drive wrapped in Anti-static and bubble wrap works the best when transporting. A lot of our money gets invested in this and I think John Venema has the right approach lately in talking about dumping the Keys all together on his products. They do nothing for the people who purchase the products but inconvenience them and the pirates crack the keys anyways. So why are the developers going to great lengths to inconvenience their customer base.With the ORBX stuff if I lost them on the journey I could download them again from my account at the store where I purchased them and if John dumps the keys as he says he may do then that would mean reinstalling would be easy for me if I lost any of that stuff over the pacific on the way to New Zealand. Flight1 would be more of a problem as I would be reinstalling them in a different place and I would have to spend a lot of time updating all that information as I am in different locations around the world. So they get low marks in my books for the amount of time required. And the pirates cracked their codes anyways so it is all for nothing. I think what it comes down to is you spend $1000’s of dollars on these things and you need to create a system to store the different keys and match them to the different files…etc But at the end of the day the pirate copies work better to reinstall as they are cracked. So what was the point in doing all of this in the first place. I am not the only one who travels with their FSX stuff as others do it too. I talk to a lot of Soldiers who take their FSX rigs over to Iraq or Afganistan and have commented on how popular FSX becomes in the barracks. I got the idea of traveling with the Rubbermaid Case from those guys as some of them do it too. Most of my ideas for traveling with FSX comes from these guys actually. Right now my worse case scenario is the Airline losing my luggage and my case, and my laptop going on the fritz at the same time. I'll be back home in New Zealand later this week so hopefully it all gets through OK :(

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Fine, Jahman! Go ahead and invest several years of development time, and risk your $10+k investment! Be the first to do so, and then......do be honest enough to report back with the results.Be prepared to eat a big helping of crow, with a dessert of humble pie a la mode... :LMAO:Must there? If there is such, surely over the past decade+ someone would have come up with one were that true... :(

I think the point is missing here. Your problems as a developer are not my problem as an end user. So why not instead thank us for our business. Ford Motor Company doesn't include their customer base in the FMEA process. It is not the customers problems. This topic is one that has obviously becomed flawed. The keys do nothing but inconvencience the end user and some of us are now questioning the reasoning behind it as they don't work. I don't think their will ever be a solution as pirate software goes back to the days of the MITS Altair 8800 punch cards. No one solved piracy back then and their are no solutions today.

[JSkorna 137]

Theft of anything is everyone's problem.If cars didn't get stolen, insurance rates would be lower. Why do you think hot cars cost more to insure? Do you think it costs less to insure a put-put? Do you think that if a Ford was never stolen, they would have the need to include anti-theft devices? Who do you think pays for that? Not Ford.If houses and businesses didn't get broken into, less police would be needed and your taxes might actually go down.If higher priced items didn't get shoplifted, stores would not need anti-theft systems, in store security, cameras everywhere you turn. Who do you think pays for all of that? Not the stores.If software didn't get stolen, anti-theft systems would not need to be implemented. These systems did not just suddenly fall out of the sky either. Someone(s) has written porcedures for this to come to be and whether it be programming time, a computer, a server, that cost, small as it may seem, is passed on to you, the customer.You don't have a clue to know if keys work or not, as only one group of people know that, and it's sure not you. And no one in the software businees is looking for a %100 success rate. We do however strive to get as close to that mark as possible.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Theft of anything is everyone's problem.

All true but things I will never think about. Especially considering I live in the South Pacific. I refuse to live that paranoid North American lifestyle, I'll leave that for those who are in it.I think I will do the Milford Walk when I get back to New Zealand and not think about any of those things. So therefore it IS NOT EVERYONES PROBLEM :( Thank-you for those products you guys work on but I do not share your stress

[n4gix 4,947]

OK, here's the challenge then: You name the product and then I'll post the torrent URL right back here, so we can see how great anti-piacy works. Are you up to it?

You obviously missed my (somewhat sarcastic) point.I'm challenging YOU to risk YOUR investment, not someone elses!Would you be willing to risk your $10,000+ investment of time and resources just to test out your "theory?" I seriously doubt that you would... :( Since the "fake torrents" have already been mentioned, I can tell you right now that I know of at least one so-called "torrent" that showed up several days before the product was even available! For that matter, there are "torrent links" for products which don't even exist... :(

[WarpD 824]

I think the point is missing here. Your problems as a developer are not my problem as an end user. So why not instead thank us for our business. Ford Motor Company doesn't include their customer base in the FMEA process. It is not the customers problems.

Wow... you really have an absurdly narrow view. Without any copy protection, the product is pirated immediately. So "Mr. End User" piracy is your problem because when it gets to a certain level... the developer quits. That happens enough, you have nothing to purchase as there will be no developers. So... why don't you stop and say thank you to the developers for even bothering to put up with such sad behavior from customers and non-customers alike? After all, many pirated products were purchased by the person who pirated them to the rest of the world.

This topic is one that has obviously becomed flawed. The keys do nothing but inconvencience the end user and some of us are now questioning the reasoning behind it as they don't work. I don't think their will ever be a solution as pirate software goes back to the days of the MITS Altair 8800 punch cards. No one solved piracy back then and their are no solutions today.

The 'keys' do work. You have 'keys' to your motor vehicle. It doesn't prevent the vehicle from being stolen, but it reduces the chance that you'll step our your front door and find your vehicle gone. 'Keys' for software works the same way... it doesn't prevent piracy... but it does reduce it. A lot.

[Guest jahman]

The 'keys' do work. You have 'keys' to your motor vehicle. It doesn't prevent the vehicle from being stolen, but it reduces the chance that you'll step our your front door and find your vehicle gone. 'Keys' for software works the same way... it doesn't prevent piracy... but it does reduce it. A lot.

So you have a hundred cars? ROTFLMAO!And all your car keys work the same or does every maker implement their "keys" in a different way?Yo! Developers! LISTEN-UP! Legitimate Users (those who actually put money in your pockets) are complaining!So PUHLEASE don't treat us like we're idiots (and even if we were, it's really bad commercial practice to do so).Cheers,- jahman.

[mgh 89]

So you have a hundred cars? ROTFLMAO!And all your car keys work the same or does every maker implement their "keys" in a different way?Yo! Developers! LISTEN-UP! Legitimate Users (those who actually put money in your pockets) are complaining!So PUHLEASE don't treat us like we're idiots (and even if we were, it's really bad commercial practice to do so).Cheers,- jahman.

Would you like to answer the question I asked you in post #13?

[dmaher 0]

As a user I understand why causal copy protection is needed.It takes such a small effort on my part to cooperate against piracy. I figure, without copy protection the complex add-ons I like just wouldn’t get made.You should also consider using more donationware.This is a great system that has no keys, allows users to pay, and doesn’t restrict them in any way.For a user like yourself – this is a win-win.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Wow... you really have an absurdly narrow view. Without any copy protection, the product is pirated immediately. So "Mr. End User" piracy is your problem because when it gets to a certain level... the developer quits. That happens enough, you have nothing to purchase as there will be no developers. So... why don't you stop and say thank you to the developers for even bothering to put up with such sad behavior from customers and non-customers alike? After all, many pirated products were purchased by the person who pirated them to the rest of the world.The 'keys' do work. You have 'keys' to your motor vehicle. It doesn't prevent the vehicle from being stolen, but it reduces the chance that you'll step our your front door and find your vehicle gone. 'Keys' for software works the same way... it doesn't prevent piracy... but it does reduce it. A lot.

Like I said. It is an issue but not one I would ever worry about. I am just an end user and happy with most things. Today I have been walking around Wellington Harbour in New Zealand and it is a beautiful summer day. I am enjoying it to the fullest so I would hardly call that a narrow view.Lifes to short so go out and live it :(

[january 19]

My simple solution to the download hassle-If the software or music is not on CD, Then the value is doubtful, so it's not for me!And buying on the net is a risky bet: Chances are that you'll one day, likely regret. AR

[esg 0]

This thread is littered with metaphors, but there's little substance. The issue here is a bigger one. . . I see it every day; people with no real interest in their craft, but a sole purpose: making money.They'll realise what an empty shell their life's been on their deathbed.

[WarpD 824]

This thread is littered with metaphors, but there's little substance. The issue here is a bigger one. . . I see it every day; people with no real interest in their craft, but a sole purpose: making money.They'll realise what an empty shell their life's been on their deathbed.

Try that with the doctor the next time you need medical aid.

[Guest jahman]

As a legitimate user I understand why causal copy protection is needed.It takes such a small effort on my part to cooperate against piracy. I figure, without copy protection the complex add-ons I like just wouldn’t get made.Jahman I kind of wish you had the same scorn for pirates as you have for developers.You should also consider using more 'donationware'.This is a great system that has no keys, allows users to pay, and doesn’t restrict them in any way.For a user like yourself – this is a win-win.

Installing and registering one add-on indeed is a small effort and no one here is complaining about that.But re-installing FSX when you have hundreds of add-ons (aircraft, scenery, utilities) takes DAYS!No developper has a right to minimize such a gargantuan task!Remember, we pay to fly and not to re-register, re-authorize software when we need to do a reinstall.Most of us have families, you know? Try telling the missus: "Sorry, hon, can't hang with you and the kids the next few days because I have to do an FSX reinstall and getting all the add-ons re-registered/re-installed/re-whatever is going to take me days." Oh, and for max effect make sure your mother-in-law is present when you say this.So you all developpers, get yer act together to unify/streamline/automate.For example, if I have registered my software once, I should be able to re-install ALL my add-ons just like that, no keys entered anywhere at all. Maybe try and check my Microsoft LiveID or whatever. Then once you have me IDd, as I install add-on after add-on, each add-on in turn should send my LiveID to the developper's web, teurn the neccssary key and get the add-on authorized automatically.The more we simmers fly with the least hassle from CTDs, Add-on reinstall nonsense, hardware configuration issues, etc, the more fun we have. The more fun we have, the more money we spend. Not too hard to understand. Developpers, the ball is in YOUR court.This is the USER REVOLUTION: We are mad as hell and we won't take it anymore!(Well, we're not thaaat mad, but it's a fun quote to cite :-)Seriously, folks, do try your best to standardize and automate. We, your paying customers, will all be grateful.Cheers,- jahman.

[Guest veeray]

Ever wonder why PC games come out 6-12 months behind the consoles....if at all. Sorry the installer may take 1-10 minutes... keying in my serial only takes 20 seconds... do the math most of the time is spent on system configuration not serial hashing.