Defeating Pirates should not be a chore for honest buyers

[mgh 89]

1 Prison-time offense in certain countries of the EU. Just flat out a bad, bad, bad, bad, oh did I mention bad idea?

In which EU countries is this an imprisonable offence?

c. When your customer installs your Add-On, if he is a repeat customer then pre-fill the registration fields with this his name, address, telephone number, email, whatever. Never treat a repeat customer as if he were a first timer!

[january 19]

I haven't fould a shop selling CDs and DVDs that allow you to take them away without paying and then pay later - have you?

My goodness- where do you live? Our whole modern society is based on "take the goods now" and perhaps, later, at some indefinite time, (if you can or if you feel so inclined), pay for them months/years later. Your friendly credit card issuer will pay the merchant even if you can't/won't/disappear/go bankrupt etc.In fact, while you are shopping for CDs, why not take home a super deluxe stereo? No need to pay-just swipe the card!Haven't got a card that's not maxed out? No problem, here's another!The obligation of an individual to actually pay for his purchases no longer exists.For some info on this subject, read- "Maxed Out" by James Scurlock.AR

[n4gix 4,947]

Fr Bill-What we don't know is how many of those 17,000 downloads were ever actually used or flown by a simmer. More likely they were downloaded to demonstrate computer savvy and for the thrill- a bit like smoking a cigarette behind the barn in my day.My guess is that 98% of those downloads were never actually flown- but rather shown off to pals and girlfriends as proof of their teenage testosterone. Even more satisfying if you can get the adults all upset over it! Like illegal drag racing!!(at almost 80, I can honestly say "My, that was a long time ago!".)AR

But, that doesn't really matter at all! The point is that each of those 17,000 "customers" had to pay the website owner for the privilege of downloading the file to begin with. Even if the "customer" never installs or uses the download is completely irrelevant...

[momtchil 32]

My goodness- where do you live? Our whole modern society is based on "take the goods now" and perhaps, later, at some indefinite time, (if you can or if you feel so inclined), pay for them months/years later. Your friendly credit card issuer will pay the merchant even if you can't/won't/disappear/go bankrupt etc.In fact, while you are shopping for CDs, why not take home a super deluxe stereo? No need to pay-just swipe the card!Haven't got a card that's not maxed out? No problem, here's another!The obligation of an individual to actually pay for his purchases no longer exists.For some info on this subject, read- "Maxed Out" by James Scurlock.AR

In this 'modern scociety' you do pay for almost everything (there's no perhaps about it). With credit cards you can actually pay even more in the long run. Banks do make considerable profits from these.

[n4gix 4,947]

Well, all I can say I can find any cracked Add-on I want just by googling, so maybe you don't know much about DRM either, or, DRM doesn't work, take your pick. We seem to be going in circles here.

You are "assuming" that all Google returns actually lead to a downloadable product. They don't. If you the follow the links from those returns, ultimately the vast majority of them lead to a "pay me to download" website.Should you be silly enough to pony up the typical "fee" you'll ultimately discover that they don't actually have what you wanted available at all.

[mgh 89]

My goodness- where do you live? Our whole modern society is based on "take the goods now" and perhaps, later, at some indefinite time, (if you can or if you feel so inclined), pay for them months/years later. Your friendly credit card issuer will pay the merchant even if you can't/won't/disappear/go bankrupt etc.In fact, while you are shopping for CDs, why not take home a super deluxe stereo? No need to pay-just swipe the card!Haven't got a card that's not maxed out? No problem, here's another!The obligation of an individual to actually pay for his purchases no longer exists.For some info on this subject, read- "Maxed Out" by James Scurlock.AR

What was proposed that you take the goods (download them) and then, if and when you feel like it, you pay for them.Can't you tell the difference between that and a credit card transaction?

[january 19]

What was proposed that tou take the goods (download them) and then, if and when you feel like it, you pay for them.Can't you tell the difference between that and a credit card transaction?

What I was commenting on, is that there is a now a disconnect between who owns and who pays. A whole generation now accepts that SOMEBODY ELSE pays- whether it be AMEX, the Government or the storekeeper. The concept of "Ownership" and personal payment in exchange, is gone. Used to be mommy or daddy who brought home the goodies- Now that the kids are all grown up, VISA with a never/never day of reckoning (or a simple "free" download) does the same.Listen to the cry that WE ARE ENTITLED TO UNLIMITED INTERNET USE regardless of cost.And read the book (Scribner publishers) or watch the documentary- "Maxed Out" by Scurlock, . ARPS Glad I'm old, I'd hate to be a teenager bombarded with offers implying "You have a right to enjoy all the good things of life- just sign the attached form, make a minimum monthly payment and the world is yours!" Any mention of repaying is likely in awfully fine print,in lawyer speech on page 3. After all, the storekeepers give the stuff away - it's VISA who pays the merchant. Isnt it?

[JSkorna 137]

And please don't forget the part about products automatically re-installing themselves without 3 mouse clicks. :( :( :(

[StoneC0ld 5]

You are "assuming" that all Google returns actually lead to a downloadable product. They don't. If you the follow the links from those returns, ultimately the vast majority of them lead to a "pay me to download" website.Should you be silly enough to pony up the typical "fee" you'll ultimately discover that they don't actually have what you wanted available at all.

.... And the owner of the site has your credit card and other personal information to use as they see fit... As I've heard, most of these "fake" torrent sites are scams looking to collect credit card numbers and personal information to use for credit card fraud and identity theft....

[TPerson 15]

Jahman you are correct that DRM is a hassle for legitimate users but you do not seem to have a care for the developers who must protect their products. You are also complaining about clicking the "OK" button three times and re-entering serial keys which to me sounds like you want somebody else to do the work for you. Let me ask you something. When you open the door to your home do you not have to use a key to open the door? Do you have a deadbolt lock also which requires a second key? Do you think it is a hassle to have to use that key on your door or do you not have it to protect your personal property in your home? Why should software be any different. The developers are protecting their property.Now to jump to the other side of the fence.

Even though it's quite likely that vast majority of folks who download cracked software wouldn't have paid for it anyway......most of those same individuals willingly pay some small monthly fee to a website for the privilege of downloading cracked commercial products!What's really the most galling to me, is that the "freeloaders" aren't the real problem, it's the b*tards who crack things to begin with, and the ones who run the websites and/or servers who profit from their modest "monthly fees." Consider just one example of an FSX release that at the time I checked had a total of 17,000+ downloads from one such site. At the $9.95/mo charge, that's close to $170,000! :( That same FSX release had a total of 640 legitimate sales on that same day. At $36.95, the developer received gross sales of only $23,648. After expenses net earnings were around $7,800 or thereabouts... :( Now, who did all the work, and who's making the real money?

But, that doesn't really matter at all! The point is that each of those 17,000 "customers" had to pay the website owner for the privilege of downloading the file to begin with. Even if the "customer" never installs or uses the download is completely irrelevant...

Bill although I understand your point and your frustration you really are twisting your own words. 17000 downloads does not necessarily equate to 17000 customers. Downloads and customers are two entirely different things as one customer can download the same file multiple times as I have done here at the Avsim file library many times. Also a thief who buys a $20 crowbar to break into someone's house may get the chance to steal thousands of dollars worth of property so think about that in regards to why a pirate/thief might subscribe to such a website. And please do not think that I am implying that it is OK to do that.Piracy is rampant and DRM's are a necessity so customers and developers have to suffer because of both. One side suffers because it is a hassle. The other side suffers with lost sales/money. One is worst than the other and I think it is obvious which one that is. Let's move on to the next topic.Todd

[Guest jahman]

I haven't found a shop selling CDs and DVDs that allow you to take them away without paying and then pay later - have you?

Are you really saying you have never encountered "try before you buy" software?Shareware - Wikipedia: The term shareware (also known as trialware or demoware) refers to proprietary software that is provided to users without payment on a trial basis and is often limited by any combination of functionality, availability or convenience. ... The rationale behind shareware is to give buyers the opportunity to use the program and judge its usefulness before purchasing a license for the full version of the software.Are we on the same panet?Cheers,- jahman.

[Guest jahman]

Jahman you are correct that DRM is a hassle for legitimate users but you do not seem to have a care for the developers who must protect their products. You are also complaining about clicking the "OK" button three times and re-entering serial keys which to me sounds like you want somebody else to do the work for you. Let me ask you something. When you open the door to your home do you not have to use a key to open the door? Do you have a deadbolt lock also which requires a second key? Do you think it is a hassle to have to use that key on your door or do you not have it to protect your personal property in your home? Why should software be any different. The developers are protecting their property.

Todd,Read my previous posts: We´re talking hundreds of add-ons resulting in endless hours of just entering keys and clicking meaningless OK buttons. The registration keys can be stored in the registry (others do!) and the OK buttons can be done away with for re-installs. Nobody is complaining here about dealing with a handful of add-ons.Cheers,- jahman.

[mgh 89]

Are you really saying you have never encountered "try before you buy" software?Shareware - Wikipedia: The term shareware (also known as trialware or demoware) refers to proprietary software that is provided to users without payment on a trial basis and is often limited by any combination of functionality, availability or convenience. ... The rationale behind shareware is to give buyers the opportunity to use the program and judge its usefulness before purchasing a license for the full version of the software.Are we on the same panet?Cheers,- jahman.

I see no reference to try-before-you-buy.

I therefore propose that developers themselves put their products free ofcharge on torrent servers, together with a URL where honest users like me(100% of software paid for) can pay for the software we use.

Stop wriggling!

[dmaher 0]

Jahman, do you have any Flight1 add-ons?And do you use the Flight1 online account system...it’ll automatically manage all your F1 keys online with 1 user name and 1 password.It has records for all my purchases....even from the old days.I find add-on reinstalls in my case aren’t such a big hassle.Not like Photoshop, etc…this is where my major time goes.BTW, I find it hard to believe you actually have hundreds of add-ons :rolleyes:How many add-ons do you actually have? -round number wise.Implementing an auto installer for your entire library of add-ons is technically and practically extremely doubtful - at least for FSX.However, the Flight Marketplace might address some of the roadblocks.Still I wouldn’t trust such a tool myself if I had more than a few add-ons....things could go bad ;)And Jahman :( please tone down the nasty rhetoric.... :(

[JSkorna 137]

Clicking on the license agreement is too much for him and even Flight1 is not automatic enough. Browsing to his key or entering his purchase information would just take way too much of his precious time. I wonder where he finds the time to use his hundreds of add-ons?