Defeating Pirates should not be a chore for honest buyers

[JSkorna 137]

I wonder. In the time it has taken to just read this thread, how many addons could I have installed?DRM? Flawed, it's digital. But if it doesn't inconvenience me, I don't care about it.Customers are not always right.Some of the suggestions here are getting into the Jobsian distortion reality field, I fear.

1. You are right!2. That's for sure.3. You think??

[louiseSEUK 2]

3. You think??

Three or four? I stand by both :)

[mgh 89]

Here, Paragraph 1, Line 1.Cheers,- jahman.

Where did you say "proprietary software that is provided to users without payment on a trial basis" in your proposal?

I therefore propose that developers themselves put their products free ofcharge on torrent servers, together with a URL where honest users like me(100% of software paid for) can pay for the software we use.

Your wriggling and intellectual dishonesty is becoming as ludicrous as your argments

[Drag0nflamez 0]

Someone made a indie games package for which you were allowed to pay as much as you want (e.g. 1 buck or 40 bucks, like a donation system), and if you bought them apart from eachother they would be a lot more expensive (depends how much you wanted to pay).Anyway, because many release groups respected that, but some guy put it on BitTorrent. That actually boosted sales (or it was due to a very slow download server, that buyers would buy it then use bittorrent to get it)Piracy boosts sales. Period.

[n4gix 4,947]

I also provided concrete suggestions on how this might be achieved. Here's one more: Since 2 TBy HDDs are so cheap, add-ons shipping on DVDs ought to allow for copying onto the simmers software repository HDD and allow for automated silent installation from there (except for first-time install of course).

Now here's a thought! How about taking responsibility to solve your problem(s) locally?I bought and installed a networked NAS (Network Attached Storage) device. It has a 2TB primary, and a 2TB secondary with automatic "mirroring" from the primary to the secondary.I bought and installed Acronis True Image and have it set up to make a weekly backup of both my development computer and my flightsim computer, with daily "instant incremental backups." As files are changed, the program automatically updates them on the NAS.In the event of a failure of either machine, one "click" via Acronis will initiate a complete restoration of either computer, including a complete wipe/restore of the Registry. Several hours later, I can simply reboot the restored computer, and be back to work! :(

[dmaher 0]

From MegaSceneryEarth, 200. OK, no DRM on these, but I have to feed them in one by one, clicking 200 EULA OK buttons! I have 450 entries in my scenery.cfg file. Say 3 minutes each to install, thats 200 x 3 = 600 minutes, i.e. 10 hours of clickety-click that I can't go do anything else. Add 3 hours for FS Global 2010, another 3 for FS North America (for some reason reading DVDs is really slow), 8 for REX (actual, timed), that's 24 hours, or a whole day for those add-ons alone, and if you have 2 hrs leisure time per day (and that's a lot for some these days!) then you're in for 12 days straight on these add-ons alone, so say three weeks total for all add-ons.

Yeah, this does actually sound like a nightmare to me. I’d be fit to be tied. I imagine yours is an extreme case...but it’s certainly not unrealistic. I happen to use a different set off add-ons and generally don’t have more than 6 installed at any time. So I’m an extreme case at the other end of the spectrum. You’ll get advice to reduce the number of add-ons you use...that’s not really a solution it's just a way to avoid the worst of the problem. But it’s a reasonable strategy.For the problem, as you know - the difficulty is every developer uses different tools and methods for an install. Some may be licensing technology and others may build their own entirely or in part. Getting any sort of consistency among all these small outfits would be really hard. It practically has to come down from a higher authority like MS. Nevertheless getting some add-ons to install together would be better than nothing. Like 200 EULA from one publisher is just unreasonable.Off-hand part of the solution would be for every installer to have a command-line method with arguments. This way the install command could be repeated once it was properly configured. If that was possible a tool could be made that recorded a reinstall command - once a ‘regular’ UI-install was made. In practice this might have some major roadblocks...so who knows.

[WarpD 824]

I notice no one liked my system wipe as a software protection method.Ironic and perhaps hypocritical for someone to expect developers to place their products "in harm's way" but yet aren't willing to take the same level of risk to use the products.

[PingPong 60]

JahmanHave you considered that after installing you could just make an image of your drive. And when you want to reinstall, just reload the image.edit: nvm someone already said it.

[TPerson 15]

I notice no one liked my system wipe as a software protection method.Ironic and perhaps hypocritical for someone to expect developers to place their products "in harm's way" but yet aren't willing to take the same level of risk to use the products.

I was under the impression that you were being facetious with your solution.Now you are making absurd suggestions. I understand your anger but are you really helping or offering anything new? In addition it would be illegal to do what you have suggested since you wouldn't have any legal right to destroy someone's property because they stole from you. Two wrongs do not make a right but I guess you would feel good if that happened to someone's system? Don't bother answering that last question because I know how you will answer! :( Todd

[JSkorna 137]

Todd,What if the system wipe was CLEARLY stated in the license agreement? Please don't say: Well, nobody reads those anyway!

[TPerson 15]

Todd,What if the system wipe was CLEARLY stated in the license agreement? Please don't say: Well, nobody reads those anyway!

Jim:We're getting off topic here but how would that matter? I will state again two wrongs do not make a right. Just because you put that in a EULA does not necessarily make it legal. Sounds like something for the lawyers. I'm not a lawyer so I cannot comment any further on that.Todd

[Shaka 2]

I do have a solution that would protect the developer's product adequately:1 - A system wipe if any illegal software is found by the protection process.2 - A system wipe if any attempts to crack the software's protection is detected. Total system wipe with no more installations of any software covered by this new process. Willing to risk your system to that level for a 'one-time-key' install? Because it's the only way I'd even consider supporting any of your demands.

Seriously? Would this even be legal? Even if it was, I imagine that not many users would be willing to risk their entire system to install your software, thus impacting your sales. Good luck.- Martin

[bendead 1,085]

Todd,What if the system wipe was CLEARLY stated in the license agreement? Please don't say: Well, nobody reads those anyway!

Jim you should clearly spend more time answering your customer email than post on a hobby forum... Benjamin

[mgh 89]

Todd,What if the system wipe was CLEARLY stated in the license agreement? Please don't say: Well, nobody reads those anyway!

I too thought the suggestion was facetious.What licence agreement would be applicable if if the software's downloaded illegally without a licence? Also, such a term would be unforceable in many countries (the UK for example) as being unfair and leave the developer open to claims for damges and possibly a criminal prosecution for malicious damage.

[WarpD 824]

Seriously? Would this even be legal? Even if it was, I imagine that not many users would be willing to risk their entire system to install your software, thus impacting your sales. Good luck.- Martin

Oh, I know... that's the whole point. Advocating that developers place their products in the public with no protection that they control is hypocritical when they're unwilling to agree to the same level of 'risk'.Developers lose a great deal of income to piracy. Without the income, there's no developer. So... as a user, you either agree to deal with the DRM... or agree that there will be no developers and thus no software. No developer is going to surrender the protection of their intellectual property.

I too thought the suggestion was facetious.What licence agreement would be applicable if if the software's downloaded illegally without a licence? Also, such a term would be unforceable in many countries (the UK for example) as being unfair and leave the developer open to claims for damges and possibly a criminal prosecution for malicious damage.

No, it's not facetious. It's proving a point. The posters want the developers to risk absolutely everything for their convenience... and yet we all know they are unwilling to actually share the risk.I will clarify one thing... 'system wipe': I mean wipe all software from the system that was covered by the protection software. You violate the license, you lose all the software covered by it. Not just one item. All of it. And yes, I do believe that is legal. You can revoke a license to use software.