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LAdamson

Why does anyone use FS2004?

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Guest rugerdog

I'm perplexed - with the goofed up wind transitions that slam your aircraft around like violent wind shear every time you fly with any kind of real weather, why does anyone use this version of Flight Simulator?Having used it for a little over a month I've pretty much determined that the much touted new weather system in FS2004 is utterly useless with real world weather. I fail to see why any reputable sites like AVSIM, among others, gave FS2004 such glowing reviews. The weather system is terrible for gosh sakes! Perhaps hardcore simmers like myself are in the very small part of the total majority and this kind of thing simply isn't a widespread issue on such terms. Frankly I can't erase FS2004 fast enough now. After a three hour flight across the U.S., I encountered a wind tranisiton with FS2004 real weather that whipped my PMDG 737 off the final approach course and into the ground like a sudden tornado out of nowhere. I guess I could program in fake weather but that's not what I thought I bought the new sim for. I will say this - I didn't realize how good FS2002 really was overall. Not perfect, but FS2004 is an arcade game in terms of real weather by comparision. Microsoft really has managed to take 1 step forward and two steps back.

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I fy mostly GA and in bush/ IMC conditions, so I enjoy the weather and actually don't find it harsh enough at times. There is so much more to this sim than the weather anyway. While I could go on about all the great things I enjoy about it, to each his own, obviously these things are not important to you or you would have not slammed it so hard.The extra autogen is a plus to me as well at the sky transitions, the rain drops on the VC, the better mesh than 2002, the new water, etc, all these small thing add up to a great experience for me. It also performs better than Fs2002 ever did for me and is more stable, as a scenery designer, I got crashs quite often working on projects, and I have yet to have FS9 crash for any reason, plus it is more fluid at lower FPS. I also find the multiplayer aspect much better than 2002.Good luck with 2002Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com


Best, Michael

KDFW

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To each his own I guess....I fly FS2004 because I like it for certain situations. Even if FS2004's wind transitions are worthless, when I fly in a FS2004 sky I feel like I'm flying in a real sky, vs. the cartoonish sky FS2002 offers by comparison--just as FS2002 made FS2000 look cartoonish when FS2002 was released. I'm not dissin' FS2002--it's still in my hard drive. But I'm not so "stuck" on hard core reality that I can't find a way to enjoy FS2004 for what it is good at. If that makes me a 40-something arcade gamer vs. a serious hobbyist in your eyes or anyone else's, so be it. Your post inasmuch suggests that only someone and/or sites serious about simming in your terms measures up.....As for hardcore simming, my first was FS-II on a C-64, back in '84.... I suppose I would have had FS-I as well if I had the money in those days for a system.... But I was too busy studying (among other things) meteorology in college :) Which brings me to my final point--I have seen (and have been in aircraft during) wind speed/direction switches that could hardly be measured in fractions of a second. It does happen, although the way Real Weather deals with it is a bit lame. Now, off my high horse and onto what I think would be a good solution.... Maybe the third party geniuses can write a utility which analyzes the wind changes in weather station data and transitions it accordingly--it would have to somehow intercept it, store it, then juggle the numbers to make the process more gradual. If FSUIPC can still write wind values, likely it can do the trick with some independent V/B module.Also, I haven't played with it, but within FS9.cfg there may be entries that allow you to adjust this as well. I certainly know that FS9 and FS2002 have vertical wind transitions modeled....-John

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Guest rugerdog

I just can't see using FS2004 with accurate weather. The wind transition isn't a just a nuisance, it makes the sim unflyable. I'm willing to sacrifice FS2004's eye candy for FS2002's reliable and realistic wind system with third party weather apps. But I think a lot of folks are happy with the new visuals like you guys and it's not a big deal. I can respect that. I guess I simply crave as much realism as possible since I mostly fly heavy iron IFR. Under this circumstance with real weather, FS2004 just isn't usable for me. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it though for you own applications, more power to ya :)

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I've never had the need for it, but have you tried the wind transition adjustment available in FSUIPC? - Doug


Intel 10700K @ 5.1Ghz, Asus Hero Maximus motherboard, Noctua NH-U12A cooler, Corsair Vengeance Pro 32GB 3200 MHz RAM, RTX 2060 Super GPU, Cooler Master HAF 932 Tower, Thermaltake 1000W Toughpower PSU, Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit, 100TB of disk storage. Klaatu barada nickto.

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Guest FPSFREAK

>I just can't see using FS2004 with accurate weather. The>wind transition isn't a just a nuisance, it makes the sim>unflyable. I'm willing to sacrifice FS2004's eye candy for>FS2002's reliable and realistic wind system with third party>weather apps. Unflyable??? Um OK if you say so. Maybe in some circumstances it may be a nuisance but to say it makes the sim unflyable is, I think, a poor statement. You do realize it's more than just eye candy between 2002 and 2004. 3 months out and I geuss waiting for the developers to come up with a solution to the erratic wind issue is too long. :( >But I think a lot of folks are happy with the new visuals like>you guys and it's not a big deal. I can respect that. I>guess I simply crave as much realism as possible since I>mostly fly heavy iron IFR. Under this circumstance with real>weather, FS2004 just isn't usable for me.I geuss you fly out of airports that only offer IFR conditions than. Kinda goes against the whole realism thing no? Only IFR is a challenge I geuss but to me it takes away any of the Joy and relaxation that comes from spending time just "Flying" around. I geuss I'm trying to figure out why someone so "Bent" on realism would give up more realistic visuals, sounds and atmospheres to have what amounts to still "FAKE" winds in 2002. I geuss it's good training for someone aspiring to be or who currently is a commercial pilot but I don't think that's what 90% of us bought the sim for. They have "REAL" simulators for that. >I'm glad you guys are enjoying it though for you own>applications, more power to ya :)I'm glad I'm enjoying it to. :) Comes as close as I need without spending 3 months salary for an hour of TRULY "As real as it gets". Enjoy 2002Bobby

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Guest rugerdog

Hi Doug,In short, FSIUPC can't control wind transition smoothing in FS2004 like it did (does) in FS2002. Pete Dowson, author of FSIUPC, says he doesn't really see a viable solution at this point. If FSUIPC had wind smoothing capability in FS2004, I'd pay out it's rather steep $20 price tag without a moment's hesistation. As it stands, I really can't see needing this utility if it can't do anything with the current FS2004 weather system. With FS2002 it works great, I couldn't live without it. :)I guess most simmers aren't really worried about the wind issue in FS2004, maybe I'm just too much of perfectionist wanting to be able to land without wrecking the aircraft into a million pieces. :)

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Guest paulri

Just one question --what dynamic weather setting do you have??? Are you aware of the effects on weather in the sim that a given setting for dynamic weather will have?? Where did this terrible problem of wind transition take place, what date and time, what was the weather conditions reported for your destination at that time--and what was the TAF and Metar for destination when you departed your point of origin? What was your enroute weather forecast, any frontal systems, what about winds aloft while you were enroute, what route were you flying, what altitude? Where was the jet stream reported, altitude and location? You see, I have never encountered the wind transitions you are talking about in FS9. Or that any of these other "experts" are talking about. And just about all my sim time is spent flying in IMC, using FS9 real IMC weather where ever I can find it here in the US, within the eastern two thirds of teh country, from the Rockies eastward to the coast. FWIW, I spent 20 years of my life in military flying. And I was instrument qualified in both FW and rotary wing aircraft. So I do know a little bit about real weather and weather flying. Will be interested in what settings you use, since our experiences in the sim are so different. Paul

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Guest rugerdog

Bobby,I don't 'setup' IFR conditions, I meant that I fly IFR type flight plans using real world weather options (winds aloft downloads checked) with complex aircraft like the PIC767 and PMDG737 aircraft add-ons. This involves flying departure/arrival prodedures (SIDS-STARS), and jet route waypoints in whatever weather condition exists in the real world, being VFR or IMC. But regarding the FS2004 real world winds aloft being a nuisance vs. unflyable as I mentioned, the winds transitions now are so violent that they throw aircraft around and stall them, force autopilot disconnects, or as I experienced today, slam me into the ground during an approach. I'd say that makes the sim pretty much unflyable, at least with real world winds aloft downloads :) You seem to be happy puttering around VFR and just enjoying the sights and sounds without worrying about real weather, that's great too and I hope you continue to have fun. A lot of simmers (probably most) are in the same catagory. I just prefer more precision and realism but that's just me :)

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Guest MEA707

I fly FS2004 because I have personally found it superior to FS2002 in every way.I agree, FS2002 was by far the best flight simulator upgrade in quite a while. It's true that FS2004 is more of a minor upgrade rather than a huge leap that we experienced from FS2000 to FS2002.But I'm still satisfied with FS2004 and really don't have any complaints. I love the new ATC, the new detailed airports, the new GPS, and the new weather which in my opinion couldn't be better.Only problem with the weather is the clouds greatly reduce frame rates which is no surprise. Just look at how detailed the clouds are. Using the FSW FPS fix however, framerate drops due to dense clouds is no longer much of an issue. With Bill Lyon's amazing water texture, we now have excellent water effects that couldn't be more perfect.I absolutely loved FS2002 and was simply amazed when I transitioned from FS2000 to FS2002, but I am satisfied with FS2004 and have left FS2002 behind as the way I see it, FS2004 is FS2002 with many new features that I like.You could call it an FS2002 Platinum Edition.I think the historical aircraft is another great plus. You don't find many 3rd party developpers creating quality historical aircraft.These are all just my opinions.Regards

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Guest rugerdog

Hi Paul,Crud I don't know why you aren't experiencing the same thing. I don't use dynamic weather at all, just FS2004 real weather with winds aloft downloads updated at 15 minute intervals. I was climbing out of Nashville (KBNA) today, 11-07-03 at approximately 17:55 CST and encountered a wind transition that pitched up my 737 to 50 degrees NU, forced autopilot disconnect and stalled the aircraft. I'd like to believe FS2004 was simulating wind shear from a convective cell in the area but I was at FL290 in the clear when it happened :) To the best of my knowledge, FS2004's default weather engine does not simulate convective wind shear, only the visual part of the thunder cells and rain effects. FS2004 does indeed simulate turbulence but this was far and beyond that effect.I am also pretty sure that FS2004 doesn't simulate any kind of CAT associated with the Jet stream, though I could be wrong.This is typical (for me) even in clear VFR weather. FS2004 must just like you more than me :)Happy Veterans Day!

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Guest paulri

Happy Veterans Day to you also. :-) I have a feeling you are one as well as I am. I think you are using Dynamic Weather, but are not aware of it. Dynamic Weather is an FS9 setting (feature?), built in, you don't have to do anything to use it, it has a default setting when you install, then it can be adjusted. Look under Options/Settings/Weatheror World/Weather, you will find a slider there for it. In the Learning Center, under the World folder, you can find some htm files on how weather in FS9 works. One of the sections deals with Dynamic Weather. Simply put, the higher the setting, the faster the weather can change--EVEN downloaded Real Weather. BTW, I do use upper level winds on my downloads. And FSUIPC, which I have registered and have full use of, has the default settings for FS2004 wind. No transitions. According to the help files, at the highest setting in Dynamic Weather, extreme changes can ooccur within 15 minutes of the time the weather is downloaded. So while you are getting your next update, the dynamic weather is changing the previous one. Makes for a fine kettle of fish stew. :-lolI keep mine at MILD, which is the nearest setting to full off. With Mild, according to the help files, changes are very slow, some not taking place for up to two hours. BTW, I believe a frontal system was in the Nasville area today, winds aloft around there, at the flight levels, were in some cases in excess of 80 knots on the wind aloft reporting charts for FL180 I saw from the Weather Channel. This is that same frontal system that came through Oklahoma yesterday, and is turning us into winter way early. :-) Just took another look, at FL340, they are reporting winds aloft from the west/sw in excess of 120 knots. Couple of areas show 160-180 knots if I am reading it right. FL180 still holds about the same as it did earler. Could make for some very unpleanant flying conditions. :-)Go here, then link to the page with the flight level you want you want. http://www.w3.weather.com/maps/activity/aviation/HTH,Paul

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>You seem to be happy puttering around VFR and just enjoying>the sights and sounds without worrying about real weather,>that's great too and I hope you continue to have fun. A lot>of simmers (probably most) are in the same catagory. I just>prefer more precision and realism but that's just me :)I confess......I just went over the $60,000.00 mark to complete my RV6A (180HP,C/S prop) to "putter" around Alaska, the Bahama's, and of course the Rocky Mountain region & southwest deserts. While I'm looking at all that "beauty" from above...............I'll think of you staring at the realism of your computer screen instruments! :)L.Adamson

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>Not perfect, but FS2004 is an arcade game in terms>of real weather by comparision. Well, I don't know. It all depends on what part of reality you are concerned with. The cloud appearance and clearly more 3D behavior is much more "real" appearing, or at least certainly is to me. So when you see yourself as valuing adherance to realism, you have to admit you are perhaps truly concerned with how an aircraft might behave, vs how real the weather appears. You just happened to be more focused on the aircrafts' behavior with respect to wind effect etc. For me, I usually have wind effects dampened anyway, and it seems about right. I like the more realistic appearance of almost all elements of 04 over 02. The exception being some odd handling of the visibility layer when viewed from above. All in all though, FS04 is a definite keeper for me. Cheers,Noel


Noel

System:  9900K@5.0gHz@1.23v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S w/ steady supply of 40-60F ambient air intake, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 2, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frametime Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320NX, WT 787X

 

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Guest tascaso

Now Larry you know that the flight model of the RV6A is simply hosed! forget about having fun in that! I used to drive an RV-4!Mucho fun!Tony

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