How do you fly STAR procedures while IFR ?

[asquel 2]

Hi,I usually fly IFR flight plans. I observed that the GPS database contains a lot of STAR procedures with multiple transitions. The problem is that, even with a specific STAR activated on the GPS, the ATC does not vector me according to the STAR. How do I reconcile both, ATC and GPS STAR procedures ?Thanks for answers.Alain

[MikeB 0]

Basically, you can't. :( The FS9 ATC is going to start issuing vectors as soon as you get within a certain distance from your destination airport. As far as I know, there is no way around it.Mike Bromley

[Guest nutmeat]

I don't know if this works in every instance but, a while back under IFR and approach control, I was able to call up the ATC screen, select the "select Another Approach/Runway" (not sure of the exact syntax on the screen) and choose from a variety of GPS and RNAV approaches. Selecting the one I wanted, ATC then cleared me to the desired intersection and told me to contact the tower when inbound. This done, I was able to complete the ILS/STAR into KRNO in very low ILS visibility and overcast conditions. Actually was an exciting approach. I might add that I was VFR on takeoff and, upon later contacting the KRNO tower, was told that the airport was now IFR. I filed the IFR while in the air, got a few vectors, and then requested the specific desired approach. It was all very real and I was in solid clouds until about 3 miles from touchdown.Larry S.

[michal 44]

I agree with Mike above there is no reliable way around it. FS9 knows nothing about individual STARs so if something happens to 'work' at some location it is not going to work for most locations/STARs.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[asquel 2]

Hi Larry,Thank you for your post ! I tried your procedure in LIRS this afternoon, and it works. The only problem is that ATC guides you only to the initial point of the procedure and then it's up to you to follow it. That means that you have to get the approach chart with the headings and altitudes, or just select that approach on the GPS and fly in NAV/GPS mode to final (but you have to guess the altitudes !)But at least, ATC does let you fly your approach, and does not cancel the flight plan !Alain

[Guest nutmeat]

Yes, you should have the approach plates, just as in real life. I guess I'm one of the "old-fashion" duddies; I first learned IFR Navigation using charts, NDB's and VOR stations and still use that method primarily. With a full complement of GoFlight radio and AutoPilot gear, it makes it pretty close to what I used to do in the real world. I admit that the GPS does make life a lot easier getting to the posted fixes but, somehow, never did get used to following a path drawn on a GPS. Also, as you are probably aware, in real life, ATC will not provide close radar control except in certain circumstances, while performing a STAR. The pilot is still required to "fly the aircraft". They will tell you, however, to proceed to a fix and hold, expecting the pilot to understand how to perform the manouever. I've not come across any situation in FS9 where this has happened!By the way, FS Navigator does have SID/STAR data for the entire world; also, Jeppeson provides approach plates and other airport data for just about everywhere; also, they do have a program integrated with FS9 which will track your aircraft atop their plates, providing a gps-like function. I did use FS Navigator in FS2002 to develop flight plans using the SID/STAR database but, as yet, have not done so in FS9. I can only assume it works about the same, which is pretty good. This program also provides excellent flight tracking in real time and it is a snap to use the mouse to find a bearing and time-to-fly to any point you may wish to; easier than most GPS's.Enjoy what we got and remember, no matter how much we spend for FS add-ons, its still far cheaper than doing it in the real world. :-)Larry S.

[michal 44]

>you only to the initial point of the procedure Which procedure is that, approach or STAR itself ?In real life ATC indeed will give you vectors to the final approach course but will never guide you to fly STAR because they assume you have charts and know how to fly it.On the other hand it makes little sense to clear you to some STAR fix and then let you fly alone until tower contact. The reality of flying in the USA today is that practically all IFR approaches are radar assisted - meaning you will vectored by ATC to intercept the final course. So clearing you to some STAR fix and then letting you fly the approach on your own is just very far from realism, even more some at airports that have STARs. Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[asquel 2]

Hello Michael,Thanks for your answer ; if I understand your experience as a real pilot (or real ATC), the most realistic approach procedures is to let FS give you radar vectors to a fix, which is very close to the runway and aligned with it.I give an example I flew this week-end. I was landing in LIBD (Bari, Italy). The approach in use was ILS 07. ATC proposed me to give me radar vectors to ILS 07. I chose to change this approach : I selected ILS 07 with transition point BAR (BAR is a VOR located just on the airport). I had only two possible choices and BAR was the best one. I checked the GPS database, and there were 5 possible transition points, but only 2 were proposed by ATC.BAR was not very logical : I was indeed SW of the airport, and it was more logical to fly a straight-in approach. So ATC did fly me above the airport at 4000 ft, and sent me back SW 15NM (approximately where I came from), without giving me altitude instructions. So when I intercepted the ILS glide path at 4000 ft, I was too high !I had by chance this approach chart (from Final Approach 6.50) : the ILS 07 approach was indeed the BAR circuit, but asked to descend to 3000 ft until intercepting the ILS course. Does it mean that FS ATC "forgot" to follow an adequate altitude profile ?My question in this case would be : which is the most realistic way to fly this approach ?a) radar-vectors to ILS fix point,:( ILS approach with the best transition point, and following the GPS flight path, guessing an altitude profile, (are the FS9 GPS proposed approaches realistic ? - but altitudes are missing !)c) fly the approach to the transition point and then follow the approach chart, if I can find it !Some advice from experienced pilots ? (or ATC)ThanksAlain