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Guest estevesm

Unrealistic GA FDE models, Dreamfleet and others...

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I'm finding problems with some of the payware/freeware models I've down loaded for FS2k4 and maybe someone can help me understand. So many people have upheld the RealAir Cessna172 flight model over the default one. I don't understand this, yes the SF260 is awesome and in my opinion had one of the best flight models in FS2k2. But RealAir's 172 in FS2k4 does not have a better flight model than the default Cessna


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I think the realair 172 isn`t too bad, being 6`3" the viewpoint isn`t so bad for me! I`m a big fan of the Sf260 and the L70 Vinka (which I think is based on similar fde development) so I might be a bit biased.I too have issues about the dfleet 152, though my concern is primarily yaw in turns. In a constant bank turn, you seem to need to feed more and more rudder into the turn to keep it in balance. In the real machine, a fairly small amount of rudder applied and held from just after rolling into the turn does the trick. However, the panel, VC and sounds make up for this little gripe with the dfleet 152. As a package its awesome, and I`ve yet to cash in my voucher for the C310.I haven`t tried anything from Carenedo apart from their freeware Tomahawk for Fs2K. I wasn`t that impressed with that (nice to look at but the fde didn`t feel comfortable - I was training in a PA-38 at that point and wanted good stall behaviour!).Have you tried the C177 Cardinal from dfleet, I haven`t got that one but it well received by others on this forum. Also, FSD produce a Rockwell Commander 115, which I haven`t tried but it is very good by all accounts. I do like the L70 Vinka from Mikko et al. I`m not sure if the issues regarding copyright got resolved but if you can d/l it somewhere give it a go. Just by two pennies worth..CheersLungs

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How does the roll rate of a 172 feel vs. the 182? The only stick time I had was back in the 80's on a 182... I found initially I had a problem overcontrolling, because the aircraft didn't respond as fast as I "sensed" it should when I was flying it. Once it did respond, roll rate seemed fairly high. Back to simming, I haven't tried RealAir's 172 file.... LOL, for light MSFS GA I prefer the Lancair :)-John

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Hey John,Well both planes fly somewhat the same except the 182 might have a little more power due to the fact that it's a newer model (this also depends on particulars in individual aircraft). I haven't noticed the delay you've mentioned...


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Guest allcott

The 182 and 172 fly very differently. Your sweeping generalisations are worrying me. As a student pilot you must have been taught that no two aircraft, even the same model form the same manufacturer, fly alike and that to dismiss the 182 as a 172 with a bigger engine is a sure invitation to an early funeral? The 182 requires far greater precision in flying, is more stable, but also more nose-heavy. Early trim is required, but precise trimming is rewarded with a more stable aircraft. The `skittish` feel of the 172 is almost completely absent in the 182's I have flown (3 different models in the last three years) but I don't have much time in 172's over the same period so my comparison is less relevant than others may offer.Your criticism of the eyepoint as part of the flight model is curious. Yes, it is factored into the aircraft.cfg but changing the eyepoint has no effect on the flight behaviour in FS, so its' an adjustment without cost, so simply set it to what you want to see.As for the flight model behaviour itself, you don't detail your system or your choice of controllers. Without precision flying tools all your synergies between real and virtual flying amount to precisely zip-all. I have a CH Products yoke and pedals ad even they don't persuade me that the virtual aircraft I am flying is anything like the real thing. What I can say with absolute certainty is that if your assessment of flight models from DreamFleet and RealAir is they are inferior to the default, then you have something very wrong somewhere in your system or with the real aircraft you are flying! Allcott

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>What I>can say with absolute certainty is that if your assessment of>flight models from DreamFleet and RealAir is they are inferior>to the default, then you have something very wrong somewhere>in your system or with the real aircraft you are flying! Couldn't agree more. Anyone who claims that DF's or RA's flight models are not any better than default ones - ought to have his flying skills reevaluated or PIC certificate revoked. But it is his PC, his simulation experience - we wish him luck.Michael J.

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Allcot you are totally correct about the 182 performance difference. But as you pointed out, aircraft don't fly the same. As far as I could tell from my experiance the 182 was not that much different for the most part from the 172, now that is my experiance. Seeing that I've only flown the 182 once and have more time in the 172 makes our experiance a total reverse. Your no expert in the 172 therefore you can only offer what you've experianced much like what I did.


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"Your criticism of the eyepoint as part of the flight model is curious. Yes, it is factored into the aircraft.cfg but changing the eyepoint has no effect on the flight behaviour in FS, so its' an adjustment without cost, so simply set it to what you want to see."As far as the visual model (let alone the default head placement), it's totally wrong. If you look from the outside in you'll see the whole cowling sits chest level to the pilots, that's totally wrong. The instrument panel/cowling in real life comes up to at least the average person's upper chest or lower neck. So this is not just an issue of moving the eye perspective...I asked this earlier Allcott so I'll just ask again and put this question to you, Visually from your experience have you been able to sit in a 152 and see the engine cover over the instrument panel or better yet have you seen anyone else do it??? Have you experienced this in any Cessna you've ever flown???Dillon--


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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16GB DLSS 3 - HP Reverb G2

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Guest Sabadin

>Visually from your experience have you been able to sit in a>152 and see the engine cover over the instrument panel or>better yet have you seen anyone else do it??? Have you>experienced this in any Cessna you've ever flown???I was able to easily see the engine cowl over the panel of a 150 when I flew them, and with the adjustable seats in a 172S I can see the cowl as well, and I'm not exactly tall at 5'7".

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Do you own the DreamFleet model? I don't think your understanding what you've experience in real life versus the visuals in the Dreamfleet model. Within reason your right but the DF 152 is a little exaggerated, furthermore you had the ability to adjust your seats in the 172. We're talking about the 152 who's seats don't adjust up and down (I didn't know the 172's seats could do that, I'll have to check that out).


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Guest Sabadin

Only the 172S can do it, theres a rotating handle on the bottom front of the seat . The older models only move forward/back like the 150's.While I don't own the DF model I can personally say that I find the eye height for the Default/Real Air 172 are both too low, always end up moving the view up and forward to get the perpective I use in the real 172.

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Guest drobson

I guess I missed something, somewhere! The 152 you are describing is not a Dreamfleet product. This is a Flight1 product, and a fine one too, IMO, although I'm not a rw pilot. Just thought I should make this one little correction.Darrell

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Guess your right...


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"I guess your taking this a little personal Lou Betti... Your personal attacks against my credibility does nothing to change my view about the 152. And it was just that my view, I don't care if George Bush designed the thing I'd still feel the same way. I'm really surprised to hear this kind of stuff coming from you of all people. I really like the work you guys have done, loved the Cessna177. Sorry to ruffle your feathers like this but after your comments I really don't care. I shouldn't have to be able to design an aircraft just because I commented on a product that I purchased with my own money. Would you go to Burger King and order a Whopper only to find out they forgot to put the meat on the bread and appreciate them telling you, "if you can do better make it yourself". Bare in mind they have given you great service up until this point. I never asked for my money back for the 152 so therefore I technically still support you guys and/or whoever designed the 152 project. Now for someone who has given you money for your work in turn can't make a comment about a product they own/is their property is very interesting... I could see if you gave me the product or I stole the software but when I'm or anyone for that matter have paid and supports your work they shouldn't have to deal with slander from the developer for an objective view which they wish to share with others??? If this add-on was Freeware I could see your point in a way. I made it very clear I like both RealAir and DreamFleets work as a whole, heck I own all your stuff. You question my ability to fly a real plane based on my comment about one simple product out of how many you've produced and I've purchase over the past few years?????? Check your records man and see how much I've bought from you guys."


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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16GB DLSS 3 - HP Reverb G2

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>Visually from your experience have you been able to sit in a>152 and see the engine cover over the instrument panel ...>Have you experienced this in any Cessna you've ever flown???Yes I have. Many times.Ok, what's the next question ? *:-*Michael J.

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