just my two cents...

[Guest]

Being that you are so into integrity. I am sure that you supported the impeachment of Bill Clinton, Mr. Integrity. His family never had any sly business dealings. I understand though. You are from the land of Ted Kennedy. Another "rock" of integrity. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.Late,DAVE

[Sonar5 3]

Ok George,George, my nose has not been bloodied. b1900 is simply afraid to debate, so he should take his own advice and not post and not read the thread, simple as that. AS FOR YOU, HOWEVER, :-)You brought up the thread about the House comment, so let's look at that thread, shall we.It occured over at Flightsim.com in their Outer Marker Forum.Here are some links. Now, before that comment was made, there were 72 comments in a thread before I responded in a Tailboom post. John Hamilton said something in Post #7 which talked about the house comment and the context in which it was made. It is Here:http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DC...ID2/3313.html#7I responded in Post #8 Here.http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DC...ID2/3313.html#8Entire Thread here:http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/3313.htmlJohn would not talk about all of the other posts prior to mine and before I got involved thus proving out his hypocrisy just as GEORGE is doing here.You See, George, If you are going to say something about me, at least give the audience the benefit of the doubt to make their own reasoned judgements without HYPOCRITICAL comments like the one you made above. I am not afraid of the truth, but it appears that you are.You see, GEORGE, there were 15 other assaults in that thread before I appeared to defend UNTRUE attacks on my country. But LIke John, you fail to acknowledge that or the 71 prior posts I just let slide by.So, next time, George try and do a little better than this pathetic attempt.Here is the whole Thread:http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/3313.htmlNever Mind, I found it. It is here: For perspective, you will notice in this thread, I was number 72 to post.http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/3313.htmlAfter this thread, I responded with this thread:http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/3315.htmlAs to your Iraq Children death report. It is tragic when any non-combatant civilians die. But if it is because of sanctions, sadaam the sandman violated every resolution the UN passed. Every one, George. There will be celebrations and thousands of Iraqi's will be saved from death as soon as sadaam is gone.Ther George, it is all out there. Doesn't appear my nose is bloodied at all. I will not be intimidated by b1900's comments. If he has the Facts, he can pu them here. It's his integrity at stake here, not mine.Maybe he should not have hit the post button and posted those comments in TWO DIFFERENT THREDS. Here is the other one:http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...D6&viewmode=allThere he tells me to do my own research. He's pathetic.Have A Nice Day, :-)Joe http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

[Guest]

Good post Joe. I need a little ARMY graphic to put at the bottom of my posts. It is liberals like BEACH1900 who's policies have made this country so vulnerable to attack. Then they blame Cheney. Come on. What a joke.Late,Captain Dave

[Sonar5 3]

Hi Dave,When they don't have facts, like b1900, it's all they have. They are called on a debate, and whammo they run crying in the corner. What Hypocrisy.It's like two weeks ago when Daschle was running around with clinton basing touting the "Oh don't go in Iraq theme"FoxNews made them all look like idiots pulling out those videos from 1998 where Clinton is trying to do the same thing George W. Bush is doing and Daschle was sponsoring the bill in the Senate.I had a very good day when I saw those.A Lot of Democrats voted against Iraq 1 in 90-91, when George H. Bush was President.Then they vote for war in '98 when Clinton is President, an now they got caught with their pants down.It's about time.Regards,Joehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

[Guest]

I don't understand Europe. If any group of people should understand how important freedom is, it should be Europe. I just heard of a British poll asking what was the most significant event of the 20th Century. You know what they said? The death of Princess Dianna. Are you kidding me? Have you all forgotten what evil is capable of? Churchill must have rolled over in his grave. I will say that I hated Tony Blair until now. He is the first politician that I have seen in Europe that is standing up for what he believes is right. Even if it hurts him in the polls or at election time. Let me tell you as an American, how I see Europe. In the 1900s The Kaiser in Germany started a war to dominate Europe. France and England could not win on their own, so the US went in and the war ended. 1930s. Same deal. This time, the US funds the rebuilding of the whole region, puts a Tank corps between you and the Soviet Union. While we are defending your continent you dismantle your military. Europe has lived under the safety of American soldiers for almost 100 years. When has Europe ever came to our aid militarily. How many Europeans don't get to spend Christmas with there families because they are overseas defending America? Being a coalition member does not count. We have never needed you militarily. Only politically. Now after all we have done for you over the last 100 years, we do need you. Politicaly and militarily. We really do need your support. But where are you? We have been there for you. Why won't you be there for us? If it were up to me, if you didn't help. I would pull all U.S. forces out of Germany, Bosnia, and Kosovo. If our greatest world friends don't want to stand by us. We won't stand by you. I grew up thinking we were friends. Now I don't know. I think you are all jealous of us or something. There is so much America bashing going on over there now. Just think about where you would be without America.Why won't you stand by us? Captain Dave

[Guest]

checkpointcharlie-All I have to say is... Brilliant post!while the attacks on the USA were horrible and wrong, that one pic sums up my feelings. I sympathize with all the victims of the 9/11 attacks wholeheartedly, I think over history we have committed equal atrocities. That does not justify the 9/11 attacks, of course. When I watch the news about the US wanting to go to war with everyone, I get very frustrated, I can't even put it into words. Violence in response to the Sept. 11 attacks is not the answer, that is all I have to say. :)

[Guest B1900 Mech]

http://www.gwbush.com/messages/2002/02-19.html For the brave truth seekers out there :) Call me a liar:-lol

[Guest]

yea well i dont like innocent people dieing also,no matter what country or religion,and as for Pearl Harbour, in reponse to the first post, yes Japan did invade Pearl Harbour, but it was a military target - Hiroshima and Nagasaki innocent lives were lost, in Perl Harbour it was a military base not a US city ...anyway i do get annoyed by all this media hype "oh we are america we are the best..."yea yea yea ...

[teropa 4]

Jeff,Now you really made me laugh!FYI I'm a citizen of Finland. Yes, the country where Nokia is. You know, those little neat cell phones that now even you americans have learnt to use, not to speak of the internet. No freedom of speech?! Give me a ##### break! Finland has about ten times more freedom of speech than you will ever have! Your comments are so out of line, I bet you don't even have a clue where Finland is. FYI this is the country that kept the Russians away in WW2, single-handedly. USA has never helped "people like me". It makes me wonder why some americans are really so ignorant about the state of things today, and what has lead to it. You probably have heard the term "world police" before, haven't you? The US of A tends to think that it has sole responsibility to put their nose everywhere, and this (plus the fact that you have a huge army) has lead to the fact that USA is _hated_ in many places around the globe. Many conflicts could have "survived" without the intervention, but no.. nooo.. you just like to "help" so much everywhere that NOW you face the consequences, my friend. Think about it for a little while, really think. Take those stars&stripes glasses off for a second and take a look at things from the POV of others.sad, really sad.Tero

[SAS263 1]

Dear Captain Dave.Just a few thoughts from a former Swedish army captain. I agree with most of what you are saying, but I feel a bit sad about a few of your statements: "Being a coalition member does not count. We have never needed you militarily. Only politically." I

[gosta 0]

> Let me tell you as an American, how I see Europe. In >the 1900s The Kaiser in Germany started a war to dominate >Europe. France and England could not win on their own, so >the US went in and the war ended. 1930s. Same deal. This >time, the US funds the rebuilding of the whole region, puts >a Tank corps between you and the Soviet Union. While we are >defending your continent you dismantle your military.Unfortunately, that's how a lot of your fellow countrymen see Europe - a knowledge of historical facts would be a more fruitful foundation for a rational discussion, but that's not the American style, is it? (judging from previous posts in this thread). > Now after all we have done for you over the last 100 >years, we do need you. Politicaly and militarily. We >really do need your support. But where are you? We have >been there for you. Why won't you be there for us? You referred to Europe as America's friends. A true friend will be honest with you and not just talk after your tongue. That's exactly what most European leaders are doing. The horrible events of last year did make the differences in perception of political realities very obvious - whilst the majority of Americans were caught completely by surprise, in European minds it was not a question of 'if', but 'when' and 'how' it would happen. And on 11/09 it did, the greatest nation on earth suffering the greatest terrorist attack on earth. The terrorists' timing was impeccable - with a hardline conservative government in force, the reaction was predictable, a propaganda-led wave of patriotism swept the country, a 'war' (against who exactly?) was the obvious answer, which in turn served to strenghten support for the terrorist groups be exploiting the (already widely held views) of the US as an imperialist, self-serving country. > I grew up thinking we were friends. Now I don't know. >I think you are all jealous of us or something. There is so >much America bashing going on over there now. Just think >about where you would be without America. Most likely, the Cold War wouldn't have dragged on as long as it did...>Why won't you stand by us? We do, but we also tell the truth, and give our honest opinions.Cheers,Gosta.

[Guest Paul_W]

>With all due respect... >>Your message just goes to show how bad case of >corridor-vision some of you americans have, when it comes to >military actions and US' own shortcomings. Greetings. A few points in response to you....You replied to me referring to "you Americans" ("Americans" should be capitalized by the way); however the last line of my message points out that I'm a non-American. In fact I'm a British citizen from the London area. I have a degree from London University, and I've ridden many miles on British Rail, and thoroughly enjoy the BBC, and chips, and the English fields, and so on and so forth. Now I live in Southern California. The point is that it is actually possible to be a Brit and to see the American cause as right--right now, and right historically. In my opinion to do less is not simply a matter of having a different viewpoint; it is rather a case of lacking reasonableness and objectivity, or perhaps a basic lack of knowledge of recent history, which is why I took a very brief excursion into some of that history above. Actually, a lot of people are just plain envious and resentful of American success in general--whether it's economic, technological or military. There's really not much that can be done about those negative and resentful sentiments, no matter how well reasoned we may try to be.You refer to "corridor-vision," but again I've made an effort to broaden the exceptionally narrow perspective posted by the fellow who started this discussion by looking at the pattern the US has established since WWII. And if you listen carefully to officials in the Bush administration these days you'll hear warnings about appeasement; a little knowledge of twentieth-century history will prompt one to suspect that they've learned something from the classically negative European and British appeasement of a really bad dude during the 1930s. The Euros wanted no more talk of war in those days either....>The picture in the first post only tries to make one THINK >of the RELATIVITY of the 911 attacks. Sure, it's horrible, >no one denies that. But you HAVE TO think bigger than that. Well, we had "corridor-vision" above, and the need to think bigger here. Again, that's why I attempted to recount some of the history for broader perspective above. I'd suggest I'm thinking more broadly here, and the original post is exceptionally narrow, and therefore distorted. And so I think your perception of corridor-vision is basically completely back to front in this case.>My God, people, take your head off your a*se and READ the >FACTS. If you want to be taken seriously I'd suggest you avoid being crass. About reading the facts: You've presented none so far as I can see. And you clearly didn't read my message that carefully, and have not responded to any of the facts of history mentioned there.Now I'm going to borrow a quote from your later message 38:>It makes me wonder why some americans are really so ignorant about the state of things today, and what has lead to it.So, the Americans need a Finn or a Euro to illuminate them? When you're flying in an airliner departing from Helsinki, who knows more about the takeoff, and the route and the landmarks along the way? I'd suggest it's the pilot, not the Finnish passengers in the back. Well, the US is at the forefront of military involvement and intelligence gathering and technological development and experimentation in this world. It has massive agencies filled with dedicated professionals and it has identified a threat, and so it has a different perspective--a pilot's viewpoint really--that the Euros and Finns apparently cannot appreciate as they sit in the back complaining about lousy (arrogant?) service and the like. I hope you can see the parallel here.In 1962 it was the US who identified a massive threat in Cuba too. Luckily they didn't wait around for the Euros to lead them in the knowledge of "the true way of things" at that time either.Regardless of all this, I wish you well. Now I must get on with my real work! Take care.

[Guest]

Good luck...how's your Swedish ? :-lol George

[Guest]

You know something Joe, I thought you were maybe an over enthusiastic patriot. You just confirmed my real thoughts....your a blabbering ejit.George

[Guest]

And suddenly....all the lights went out...