MD-11 Climb Performance issues

[tnorton776 0]

Before you post a reply, please know that I work about 10 miles south of KOAK right in line with their takeoff/landing main runway 11 and I see FedEx MD-11 take off and land from there at least a dozen times a month, and they definetly look like they have no trouble climbing out at 4-6k FPM at 60-80% N1 with a pitch angle of 20 or greater. I have also ridden in the cockpit of an MD-11 taking off out of KOAK once because my friend is a pilot with FEDEX and the tower cleared us for a max performance take off because it was midday and we shot up like a rocket to the moon after only 5k feet of runway. We was eaisly doing 10k FPM for the first 30 seconds and gaining airspeed.For some reason, the PMDG-MD11 climb performance is very subpar to real world performance. espeically in the 20 - 40k alt range. I understand poor climb performance when things are loaded 100/100. but when things are 33/33 or less the MD-11 is like a rocketship.Basically what I'm trying to say is, I do not believe the PMDG MD-11 performs nearly as well as the real world one and I would like to know why, and how if possible in the INI i can change settings or fix the problem.

[FLEX1978 373]

Are you being serious? You are comparing real world performance from spotting MD11’s taking off at work, guessing gross weight and Flex temps etc and you had 1 jumpseat ride?Your better of spending your energy getting hold of a Fedex FCOM and comparing the figures, or since you know people within FEDEX see if you can get access to PAT or ask someone to run some figures on the APLC. Either way from what I have seen the performance is spot on within FS limitations.Regards

[audiohavoc 24]

Can you backup your claim with actual performance data compared to performance in the simulator? Considering the talent at PMDG, their reputation, and their partnership with Boeing, I don't think the PMDG MD-11 is all that far off from the capabilities of the actual MD-11. P.S. I live about a mile north of the west end of LAX and I see FedEx MD-11's departing as well, and my overall impression is that their climb angle and rate is similar to what I experience in the simulator.

[michal 44]

I work about 10 miles south of KOAK right

This makes us almost neighbors - but I am about 10 miles north of KOAK.

they definetly look like they have no trouble climbing out at 4-6k FPM

Sorry I have zero trust in someone standing on the ground and estimating aircraft climb rate or pitch angle. It is equally ridiculous as someone else's claims on these forums that sitting in the first class in front of the cabin made him uniquely qualified to judge handling characteristics of the aircraft.

We was easily doing 10k FPM for the first 30 seconds and gaining airspeed.

I assume that your friend was flying an empty aircraft. Or perhaps it was a rocket-assisted takeoff. But I still don't believe your story. Not even that your were in MD11's cockpit during takeoff, the only people allowed to jumpseat on FedEx are 'cockpit eligible' - it has been their policy for a long time. Sorry.

[Check_Airman 3]

Before you post a reply, please know that I work about 10 miles south of KOAK right in line with their takeoff/landing main runway 11 and I see FedEx MD-11 take off and land from there at least a dozen times a month, and they definetly look like they have no trouble climbing out at 4-6k FPM at 60-80% N1 with a pitch angle of 20 or greater.

"4-6k FPM at 60-80% N1 with a pitch angle of 20 or greater"You can tell all that from the ground, 10nm from the airport?Have a look at this site.

[tnorton776 0]

"4-6k FPM at 60-80% N1 with a pitch angle of 20 or greater"You can tell all that from the ground, 10nm from the airport?Have a look at this site.

They fly right over where I work smarty. I know what I'm talking about. And im not the only one who has complained about PMDG MD-11 Climb performance. after 20k its almost impossible to climb, no matter what load. that is not right. there is something not right. This is not the only post about this issue.

I assume that your friend was flying an empty aircraft. Or perhaps it was a rocket-assisted takeoff. But I still don't believe your story. Not even that your were in MD11's cockpit during takeoff, the only people allowed to jumpseat on FedEx are 'cockpit eligible' - it has been their policy for a long time. Sorry.

it was empty no cargo service flight. fuel was at 50% though and I have tried similar settings with PMDG MD-11 and cannot even come close to the real world perfrormance.

[Check_Airman 3]

So you're standing directly below an airplane 10nm from the runway, and you can gain all the following information:vertical speedpower settingpitchHow confident are you in your numbers?I've never heard anybody cleared for a max performance takeoff. Where in FAA Order 7110.65 should I look to find the relevant information? Further more, where in the FCOM do I look for the profile and performance data for a maximum performance takeoff in the MD11?You sat in an MD11 climbing at "10k FPM for the first 30 seconds"? It took you 30s to reach 5000ft? Does anybody know what VS the space shuttle gets after 30s in flight?I'm not saying the PMDG MD11 is perfect, but I'm inclined to think that your numbers are a bit skewed.

[RudiJG1 172]

They fly right over where I work smarty. I know what I'm talking about. And im not the only one who has complained about PMDG MD-11 Climb performance. after 20k its almost impossible to climb, no matter what load. that is not right. there is something not right. This is not the only post about this issue.

I flew an online KMEM-CYYZ flight last night (VATSIM) in the PMDG MD-11 cargo variant (100,000 lbs cargo and 62000 lbs fuel), real world weather provided by ASE. I reached my crusing altitude of FL330 in 12 minutes with no problem. This time could have been shorter but for a departure altitude restricition ordered by KMEM ATC. So a claim that reaching 20k in this aircraft is "almost impossible" "no matter what load" is grossly exaggerated.

[michal 44]

I've never heard anybody cleared for a max performance takeoff.

Neither have I. Nothing in his story is believable.

that is not right. there is something not right. This is not the only post about this issue.

Is so they were probably equally 'expertly' informed folks like you. It is interesting we had a couple real-life MD-11 drivers and none of them complained.

[Check_Airman 3]

Neither have I. Nothing in his story is believable.

Well, one day my student requested a short field takeoff, and the tower told him "cleared for takeoff, proceed as requested". Does that count?:(

[markadeane 272]

Before you post a reply, please know that I work about 10 miles south of KOAK right in line with their takeoff/landing main runway 11 and I see FedEx MD-11 take off and land from there at least a dozen times a month, and they definetly look like they have no trouble climbing out at 4-6k FPM at 60-80% N1 with a pitch angle of 20 or greater. I have also ridden in the cockpit of an MD-11 taking off out of KOAK once because my friend is a pilot with FEDEX and the tower cleared us for a max performance take off because it was midday and we shot up like a rocket to the moon after only 5k feet of runway. We was eaisly doing 10k FPM for the first 30 seconds and gaining airspeed.For some reason, the PMDG-MD11 climb performance is very subpar to real world performance. espeically in the 20 - 40k alt range. I understand poor climb performance when things are loaded 100/100. but when things are 33/33 or less the MD-11 is like a rocketship.Basically what I'm trying to say is, I do not believe the PMDG MD-11 performs nearly as well as the real world one and I would like to know why, and how if possible in the INI i can change settings or fix the problem.

Tom, putting aside the question of your ability to gauge these things from the ground, I'd like to help you out with this. :( Set up a flight with about a 33% pax/cargo loading and conduct a routing of your choice, I'd like you to make a note of the rate of climb during the first 30 seconds, then the rate of climb at 5,000 feet, 10,000 feet, 20,000 feet and 30,000 feet. If you find the aircraft is absolutely not climbing above FL200, take a screenshot of the main instrumentation and post it here.Let us know in this post what those figures are and we'll see whether those figures stack up. The PMDG MD11 is certainly capable of a healthy climb rate above FL200 in my experience, so it's possible there is something wrong in your loading or operation of the aircraft, or possibly a weather issue (do you use Active Sky or any other live weather add-on?)Let us know how you get on! :(

[Guest dlrk]

Are you by any chance using FSINN weather? It inverts the temperature above FL245, which would make it impossible to climb.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

In the guy's support (which, some of you may know, I'm not generally in this category for anyone), if you look at MD-11s in any flight regime other than cruise, they have a relatively high angle attack versus others. They may be pointed up like they're rocketing out, but they're not getting the numbers you'd assume, given any other aircraft.That is not to say, however, that I believe any part of it.

Where in FAA Order 7110.65 should I look to find the relevant information? Further more, where in the FCOM do I look for the profile and performance data for a maximum performance takeoff in the MD11?

My only guess is he somehow got the tower to coordinate with departure to cancel the initial altitude restriction.

[tnorton776 0]

Tom, putting aside the question of your ability to gauge these things from the ground, I'd like to help you out with this. :( Set up a flight with about a 33% pax/cargo loading and conduct a routing of your choice, I'd like you to make a note of the rate of climb during the first 30 seconds, then the rate of climb at 5,000 feet, 10,000 feet, 20,000 feet and 30,000 feet. If you find the aircraft is absolutely not climbing above FL200, take a screenshot of the main instrumentation and post it here.Let us know in this post what those figures are and we'll see whether those figures stack up. The PMDG MD11 is certainly capable of a healthy climb rate above FL200 in my experience, so it's possible there is something wrong in your loading or operation of the aircraft, or possibly a weather issue (do you use Active Sky or any other live weather add-on?)Let us know how you get on! :(

Thank you for the assistance, I will follow your instructions and will do this experiment. I just want to say I am not trying to disrespect or put down PMDG in any way, I think PMDG is obviously fully capable of producing state of the art planes for FSX and their MD-11 is awesome and very well done and i Enjoy it and am looking forward to buying the 737NGX, I just want The MD-11 it to work right. That is all. I am using REX and REX weather software. Are there any known issues with REX 2.0 for FSX or its weather system?

[markadeane 272]

Thank you for the assistance, I will follow your instructions and will do this experiment. I just want to say I am not trying to disrespect or put down PMDG in any way, I think PMDG is obviously fully capable of producing state of the art planes for FSX and their MD-11 is awesome and very well done and i Enjoy it and am looking forward to buying the 737NGX, I just want The MD-11 it to work right. That is all. I am using REX and REX weather software. Are there any known issues with REX 2.0 for FSX or its weather system?

Cheers Tom. REX could be an part of the problem but I'm not 100% sure as I don't use the weather engine, just their awesome textures. :( The easiest way to find out is to run a normal flight without REX real weather (just use the FSX 'clear skies' theme) and if you can make it to cruise without problems, we can then start narrowing down the possible cause.