MD-11 Climb Performance issues

[Check_Airman 3]

My only guess is he somehow got the tower to coordinate with departure to cancel the initial altitude restriction.

At KFLL, the initial altitude is 3000. One particularly cold night, I heard a 757 on a positioning flight request a higher initial altitude from the tower. They got 5000. Now I wasn't inside the cockpit, but I'm sure that apart from a higher than normal assumed temperature, the takeoff looked just like any other. Transport category jets don't normally do "max perf" takeoffs or landings in the same way that you may do it in a cessna. The manuals I've read go as far as to say that the takeoff distance gained by setting full power before brake release results in negligible gain.Paul

[markadeane 272]

At KFLL, the initial altitude is 3000. One particularly cold night, I heard a 757 on a positioning flight request a higher initial altitude from the tower. They got 5000. Now I wasn't inside the cockpit, but I'm sure that apart from a higher than normal assumed temperature, the takeoff looked just like any other. Transport category jets don't normally do "max perf" takeoffs or landings in the same way that you may do it in a cessna. The manuals I've read go as far as to say that the takeoff distance gained by setting full power before brake release results in negligible gain.Paul

Unless you're talking REALLY tight margins, it wouldn't make a difference. Apart from to the wear on the brakes, that is.Citing the first example to spring to mind (one that I'm familiar with through work), at NZWN the departures all have an initial altitude of 4,000ft with an instruction to switch to control passing 1,500ft. Upon contact their first act is usually to give you a higher cleared altitude, subject to the traffic situation of course. It's not often that you would end up levelling at 4,000ft before receiving that further climb clearance, but that's in part because you don't have empty aircraft barrelling off the deck at TOGA thrust. Maximum power would very rarely be used in a lightly loaded airliner in good conditions, as the only purpose it could really serve is showing off or indulging the crew's sense of thrill. I guess at a (major) stretch you could claim that it got you off the runway quicker when asked to expedite your departure, but that would be pretty far fetched. No-one could really justify increasing wear and tear on the company's multi-million dollar aircraft, as well as busting noise limits just for the thrill of it. THAT, gentlemen, is what FSX allows you to do. :(

[tnorton776 0]

Am testing with 0 weather conditions now, will modify post with results when done :( .

[Check_Airman 3]

Maximum power would very rarely be used in a lightly loaded airliner in good conditions, as the only purpose it could really serve is showing off or indulging the crew's sense of thrill. :(

You say that as if it's a bad thing...:(

[FLEX1978 373]

You say that as if it's a bad thing...:(

A few examples of a max thrust take off even on a repositioning flight according to the FEDEX FCOM (and a few other company SOPS I have heard off)1.QNH is below 1000mb2.Windshear reported.3.Contaminated runway.4.APLC has requested max thrust (the aircraft must do a max thrust take off every now and then in the same way the autoland needs testing)I doubt they do the last one on an empty flight! ;)5.It's the captains last flight before retirement :) haha thats a true story with a captain out in sandpit

[mburkhard 23]

We was eaisly doing 10k FPM for the first 30 seconds and gaining airspeed.

Sorry sir but this is just nonsense. Trust me I'd know if the MD-11 were capable of doing that...Cheers,Markus

[Check_Airman 3]

A few examples of a max thrust take off even on a repositioning flight according to the FEDEX FCOM (and a few other company SOPS I have heard off)1.QNH is below 1000mb

Why would that require full power?

[Check_Airman 3]

Sorry sir but this is just nonsense. Trust me I'd know if the MD-11 were capable of doing that...Cheers,Markus

...this from an MD11 pilot.

[markadeane 272]

Guys, asides from the veracity of any claims made, I think we ought to focus on helping a fellow MD11 virtual captain get the best out of his purchase. Tom is doing some testing and will reply with his findings, anything asides is not really as significant in my humble opinion. I'm not having a go at anyone of course, we're all here to learn after all!Tom, how did you get on mate?

[FLEX1978 373]

Why would that require full power?

Hey, That was straight from the FEDEX FCOM apparently if the pressure is below 1000mb the APLC defaults to max thrust, I am off out now but will get back to you with the exact reason.Cheers

[Check_Airman 3]

Hey, That was straight from the FEDEX FCOM apparently if the pressure is below 1000mb the APLC defaults to max thrust, I am off out now but will get back to you with the exact reason.Cheers

Thanks. What's APLC btw?

[FLEX1978 373]

(Onboard) Airport Performance Laptop Computer - I couldn't find much info as to why it defaults to Max Thrust except the obvious reason that lower pressure results in less thrust, I guess FEDEX Sop dictates that if the pressure gets low enough you must use TOGA.To be honest flying all over the virtual world with the MD11 and real weather I hardly ever come across pressure below 1000mb unless the weather is really bad so I'm normally planning on TOGA thrust anyway.Regards

[Check_Airman 3]

thanks

[4116705510 4]

Too bad teh MD-11's wing was an older design. Minimum of 8,000ft runway for landing! It was quite strickened.

[markadeane 272]

Too bad teh MD-11's wing was an older design. Minimum of 8,000ft runway for landing! It was quite strickened.

My calcs would have you landing in under 7,000ft at MLW. With lighter loads the MD11 can be put onto surprisingly short strips.That said, the MD has higher takeoff and landing speeds than most, if not all, other subsonic commercial transports I can think of. Fortunately a good set of brakes helps with that, as does good airmanship and handling technique. Gibraltar and Innsbruck are doable in the sim at least, not to mention a lot of fun!