Touch and go

[masaki 8]

Hi allI was practicing yesterday the go-around procedure on the MD11 and it seems straight forward, TOGA, flaps 28, gear up at positive climb, the FMC calculates the climb speed etc..However, I can't get to do a touch'n go. After touchdown and spoiler deployment, the aircraft wants to full stop regardless of me pushing the throttles, this being with AP disconnect but AT on.Is the procedure described somewhere?Stefan Ticusan

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

If you want to practice a touch and go, don't activate the autobrakes and don't deploy reverse thrust after T/D. If you do it you'll have to, mandatorily, take the aircraft to a full stop. You'll fly the approach the same way you would in a normal landing, but with no autobrakes armed. If you don't feel you're able to fly the approach controlling the thrust manualy, fly it with A/T on, but remember to disconnect it about 40-20 feet above the runway, or your speed won't decrease and you will have difficulty to flare the plane. Touch the runway, allow the plane to slow down about 15-30 knots WITHOUT reverse thrust and try not to use the brakes too. Meanwhile, retract the flaps to 28 degrees. Then apply full thrust and go around. That's basically it.

[masaki 8]

If you want to practice a touch and go, don't activate the autobrakes and don't deploy reverse thrust after T/D. If you do it you'll have to, mandatorily, take the aircraft to a full stop. You'll fly the approach the same way you would in a normal landing, but with no autobrakes armed. If you don't feel you're able to fly the approach controlling the thrust manualy, fly it with A/T on, but remember to disconnect it about 40-20 feet above the runway, or your speed won't decrease and you will have difficulty to flare the plane. Touch the runway, allow the plane to slow down about 15-30 knots WITHOUT reverse thrust and try not to use the brakes too. Meanwhile, retract the flaps to 28 degrees. Then apply full thrust and go around. That's basically it.

Thanks Matheus, I'll try this. Just wondering though, landing with no autobrakes set will give me a warning on EAD, so that's something that airlines won't do; so how do they manage this situation in real life..

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

If you want to make it more realistic, set them as you would do in an regular approach and after touchdown, when you decide it's time to set full thrust, just tap the manual brakes and the autobrake will desengage (just turning the A/B knob to OFF won't have any effect). Then continue with the go around procedure.

[sheepfu 3]

A touch and go is not a normal aircraft operation. It is a special procedure. Therefore EAD message could be ignored. Also I believe and could be corrected, but the EAD message on approach for autobrake is in white. This means that it is a reminder not a necessary configuration. To practice touch and goes you should arm auto brake or auto spoiler. Here is a video of Boeing doing a touch and go with a new 747F

. If you watch, they touch down and as soon as the nose gear comes down they throttle up and take off. There are other training videos where they have discussed this procedure that I have watched in the past. They have said that if you inadvertently brake or engage reverse thrust, as these are natural reaction for a pilot when meeting the runway, come to a complete stop and do not attempt to take back off.

[Check_Airman 3]

If you want to practice a touch and go, don't activate the autobrakes and don't deploy reverse thrust after T/D. If you do it you'll have to, mandatorily, take the aircraft to a full stop. You'll fly the approach the same way you would in a normal landing, but with no autobrakes armed. If you don't feel you're able to fly the approach controlling the thrust manualy, fly it with A/T on, but remember to disconnect it about 40-20 feet above the runway, or your speed won't decrease and you will have difficulty to flare the plane. Touch the runway, allow the plane to slow down about 15-30 knots WITHOUT reverse thrust and try not to use the brakes too. Meanwhile, retract the flaps to 28 degrees. Then apply full thrust and go around. That's basically it.

Agreed with everything except the speed. Touch down, flaps 20, then full power. Unless you're on a VERY long runway, slowing to 30kt will commit you to a full stop landing.Paul

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

Agreed with everything except the speed. Touch down, flaps 20, then full power. Unless you're on a VERY long runway, slowing to 30kt will commit you to a full stop landing.Paul

That's true. I have exaggerated a bit on that part :(. As Branton said, just let the nose gear touch the runway and then apply full power.

[markadeane 272]

Hi allI was practicing yesterday the go-around procedure on the MD11 and it seems straight forward, TOGA, flaps 28, gear up at positive climb, the FMC calculates the climb speed etc..However, I can't get to do a touch'n go. After touchdown and spoiler deployment, the aircraft wants to full stop regardless of me pushing the throttles, this being with AP disconnect but AT on.Is the procedure described somewhere?Stefan Ticusan

Stefan,As outlined, you'll need to take the AT out in order to carry out a touch-and-go. This is because the AT is retarding the thrust levers to idle in the flare and your throttle controller is not able to overcome that idle command. Leave the autobrake OFF, the EAD message is only relevant for a normal landing. The rest is just basic flying technique. Paul is right about the full power thing too, unless you have a lot of runway and/or are lightly loaded, don't muck around letting the aircraft decelerate, get the power on as soon as you derotate the nosewheel onto the runway and then go for it!For an extra challenge, incorporate the touch-and-go into manually flown pattern work. Experiment to find out what power settings and pitch attitudes result in level flight at given speeds, then get out there and thrash that circuit!

[mbucholski 9]

You never know when you will be forced to do a touch and go (G/A after touchdown), so the "not arming ABS and ignoring EAD" doesn't really convince me, as you would have to make this a standard procedure. I know I'm an old coot, but just my 0.02. :(

[masaki 8]

Stefan,As outlined, you'll need to take the AT out in order to carry out a touch-and-go. This is because the AT is retarding the thrust levers to idle in the flare and your throttle controller is not able to overcome that idle command. Leave the autobrake OFF, the EAD message is only relevant for a normal landing. The rest is just basic flying technique. Paul is right about the full power thing too, unless you have a lot of runway and/or are lightly loaded, don't muck around letting the aircraft decelerate, get the power on as soon as you derotate the nosewheel onto the runway and then go for it!For an extra challenge, incorporate the touch-and-go into manually flown pattern work. Experiment to find out what power settings and pitch attitudes result in level flight at given speeds, then get out there and thrash that circuit!

Thank you all gentlemen for the replies. So it does seem touch and go is more of a "practice" routine rather than a normal procedure. I'm also curious once I'm airborne, will the FMS recognize the new state I'm in and calculate speeds, attitude via flight director etc.You have probably seen this video:

The long version is on flightlevel350

[sheepfu 3]

You never know when you will be forced to do a touch and go (G/A after touchdown), so the "not arming ABS and ignoring EAD" doesn't really convince me, as you would have to make this a standard procedure. I know I'm an old coot, but just my 0.02. :(

It would be extremely rare that you would be ordered to go around after touchdown. Even for an intrusion into the runway, once your wheels hit, you are pretty much committed in standard landing configuration. In standard landing configuration several things happen as standard practice on commercial airliners. First at touchdown auto-spoilers deploy. This serves to reduce lift and keep the aircraft planted. Secondly autobrakes kick in and begin to slow the aircraft. Almost all airlines require their pilots to use some setting of autobrake if the aircraft is so equipped. If the pilot were ordered to or decided to go around after touchdown, he would have to throttle up, retract the spoilers, and disengage autobrake. This all takes valuable seconds and puts the plane in extreme jeopardy.The only thing I have ever seen of a pilot going around after touch down was an a320 landing in a heavy crosswind. His right main gear touched and the wing tip touched the runway. He powered up and climbed to go around. Had both his right and left gear touched, the spoilers would have deployed and he would have been committed to stop regardless of outcome.EADS messages are warnings, they serve to remind pilots of abnormal conditions that may exist. If you look at checklists for airliners they require a recall of warning messages prior to approach. This serves to remind the pilot of any errors that may have been "cleared" during flight. The MD-11 is even better as its messages are color coded. White is meant for pilot awareness, yellow for warning, and red for a problem. Correct whites and yellows if possible or necessary and always deal with reds if possible and you will have happy flying.

[JOR 0]

Touch and go's are basicly only for training purposes these day's. However, sometimes it happends that the flare is pretty long and eating too much rwy that a GA is necessary. It happend to me last week at Quito (too much land minded). When TOGA applied the main gear gently touched the rwy (no spoiler action) and airborn again. Keep in mind that the engines need time to spool up from idle to TO trust. Reg,John