Updates from navigraph?

[nrcapes 0]

Hi:I am a brand-new newb to RC (just downloaded today). What I am wondering about is how RC is kept current with ATC published routes. I use Flightsim Commander for my flight planner. Starting on page 87 of the RC manual, there is a flight from KLAS to KLAX using a SID of IDALE1 and a STAR of CIVET4. However, neither of these exists in the FS Commander database, which I download from Navigraph. The Navigraph AIRAC update is April 7 to May 4, 2011. I saved the flight plan to the FS9 flight plan directory and loaded it into RC. After passing the first few waypoints, the RC controller directed me to essentially reverse course! Is this because the database that RC operates off of is different from the AIRAC update? Everything seemed to work until the enroute segment (BOACH to HECTOR) which is when RC told me to fly a heading of 010. but the heading in the flight plan is 228.I'm obviously confused about the way RC works with the various databases in FS9. Is this a problem with the flight planner, with non-matching waypoints, or with RC?thanks!

[ronzie 21]

RC4 only uses airport structure information from your installed scenery. It does not keep any waypoint or SID/STAR data on its own. It does not care about your FMC/navgear stored procedures. All of the waypoint information (coordinates and label) is derived from your flight plan. If you use a SID or STAR your flight planner probably expands the waypoints into the file for RC and it with certain exceptions in the departure phase expects you to follow them. If you can, consider importing the entire plan into your FMC as exported by your flight planner to keep the RC plan and FMC in sync. In your FMC you can still choose a runway or runway approach procedure for situational awareness on your navigation display. You should be able to choose the landing runway as soon as approach assigns it. If vectors are being issued it is still your responsibility to follow them. (For difficult terrain read about conducting your own approach, called an IAP in the manual.) Also avoid planner waypoints that are very close to your take-off or that will cause you to reverse direction too tightly as they can be easily missed especially with larger aircraft that have bank limitations that will not allow a tight enough turn.There are various conditions for departure and arrival that are explained in the tutorials regarding flexibility, when to request or have to navigate on your own, etc. Check out descriptions of the Controller page items in the manual. Read the different procedures for departure and arrival, especially departure, on what RC expects you to navigate on your own.See also the "On The Fence" thread regarding the last reply on using a planner with RC and an FMC controlled aircraft. I give several alternatives in there.It is the responsibility of the pilot flying to insure ATC commands are obeyed and file the plan containing the actual waypoints used. If you were turned around you missed probably a waypoint in your plan. If you have not acknowledged a command RC will stall and not recognizing you passing a waypoint. The waypoint expected and bearing to it is shown in the status area of the in-flight RC window. If you wish you can skip a missed waypoint in some phases by going to the extended menu (9 by default) selecting direct-to, and selecting the next waypoint on the list. If granted fly directly from your present position to that waypoint without returning to that original path.If you were given an altitude crossing restriction usually occurring 40 nm out from destination, be sure you are at that altitude or RC will give you circling/delay vectors until you reach it.Regarding specific procedure names or waypoints, they might be out of date in the tutorials. Use the information in your flight planner in a similar fashion.If your planner and navgear databases can be updated from navigraph so they are in sync, so much the better.

[nrcapes 0]

RC4 only uses airport structure information from your installed scenery. It does not keep any waypoint or SID/STAR data on its own. It does not care about your FMC/navgear stored procedures. All of the waypoint information (coordinates and label) is derived from your flight plan. If you use a SID or STAR your flight planner probably expands the waypoints into the file for RC and it with certain exceptions in the departure phase expects you to follow them. If you can, consider importing the entire plan into your FMC as exported by your flight planner to keep the RC plan and FMC in sync. In your FMC you can still choose a runway or runway approach procedure for situational awareness on your navigation display. You should be able to choose the landing runway as soon as approach assigns it. If vectors are being issued it is still your responsibility to follow them. (For difficult terrain read about conducting your own approach, called an IAP in the manual.) Also avoid planner waypoints that are very close to your take-off or that will cause you to reverse direction too tightly as they can be easily missed especially with larger aircraft that have bank limitations that will not allow a tight enough turn.There are various conditions for departure and arrival that are explained in the tutorials regarding flexibility, when to request or have to navigate on your own, etc. Check out descriptions of the Controller page items in the manual. Read the different procedures for departure and arrival, especially departure, on what RC expects you to navigate on your own.See also the "On The Fence" thread regarding the last reply on using a planner with RC and an FMC controlled aircraft. I give several alternatives in there.It is the responsibility of the pilot flying to insure ATC commands are obeyed and file the plan containing the actual waypoints used. If you were turned around you missed probably a waypoint in your plan. If you have not acknowledged a command RC will stall and not recognizing you passing a waypoint. The waypoint expected and bearing to it is shown in the status area of the in-flight RC window. If you wish you can skip a missed waypoint in some phases by going to the extended menu (9 by default) selecting direct-to, and selecting the next waypoint on the list. If granted fly directly from your present position to that waypoint without returning to that original path.If you were given an altitude crossing restriction usually occurring 40 nm out from destination, be sure you are at that altitude or RC will give you circling/delay vectors until you reach it.Regarding specific procedure names or waypoints, they might be out of date in the tutorials. Use the information in your flight planner in a similar fashion.If your planner and navgear databases can be updated from navigraph so they are in sync, so much the better.

Very helpful! I think the problem was with the b737_400 flying too fast for me to keep up with close-in waypoints. I noticed that the next waypoint shown in the RC window was always one behind where I actually was. Will try using waypoints only for enroute procedures and see if that works. BTW, I don't have an FMC. I just used FS9 standard GPS with autopilot. Does that present any specific issues? Also, I turned Pilot Autoreply off. Would it be better to leave it on for fast aircraft to avoid missing a waypoint?Thanks!

[ronzie 21]

I suggest operating without Pilot Autoreply On if possible. Sometimes you want to delay an ack so you can start the aircraft action requested (like a climb - minimum 200 ft./min.) and then ack. Delaying an ack keeps an unreasonably impatient controller from complaining. In addition this allows you to request a repeat of a command you did not understand the first time around (but ignore the critique comment on improving your listening skills). :) Just ack the command before you are near your next waypoint.Don't run FS accelerated flight beyond 2X and even that can be iffy and never accelerate in the departure and arrival phases.I run the 737NG series going about 180 nm in a turning pattern in the airport region going up to 210 once the waypoints start to increase distance. The reverse is true for approach. There are real areas where higher speed noise abatement is in effect but don't fly faster than you can navigate the waypoints. Those procedures require you to slow down about 1,000 to 1,500 feet AGL reducing pitch and cleaning up the aircraft so you can use less power. In addition I use MCP control during initial departure and final arrival because of the bank limitation and and AP tendency to start turning early on large heading changes present in some SIDs and STARs. In fact some airline operating procedures require this or hand flying in the terminal procedure areas and some at all times under 10,000 feet. (I suspect that is for maintaining pilot qualification and better collision avoidance in the heavier traffic at lower altitudes.)For best RC performance use only Interactive AI and AI Chatter with Display Text off and Prerecorded Chatter off.As far as I know the default GPS will accept all waypoints from an FS plan.Regarding my 'hint' sheet based on FSBuild, a lot of those procedures can be applied so FSC as well.If RC is behind the position of your plane then you have probably a performance issue somewhere. I wouldn't use any moving map feature as that can cause a performance hit. Unless you need online access during your flight, turn off your PC net port connection and disable any applications and services not required.I'm using Win XP Pro SP3 on a P 5 3.2 GHz pentium and there only is a very slight delay in RC recognizing the waypoint credit but that is just the display only.

[nrcapes 0]

I suggest operating without Pilot Autoreply On if possible. Sometimes you want to delay an ack so you can start the aircraft action requested (like a climb - minimum 200 ft./min.) and then ack. Delaying an ack keeps an unreasonably impatient controller from complaining. In addition this allows you to request a repeat of a command you did not understand the first time around (but ignore the critique comment on improving your listening skills). :) Just ack the command before you are near your next waypoint.Don't run FS accelerated flight beyond 2X and even that can be iffy and never accelerate in the departure and arrival phases.I run the 737NG series going about 180 nm in a turning pattern in the airport region going up to 210 once the waypoints start to increase distance. The reverse is true for approach. There are real areas where higher speed noise abatement is in effect but don't fly faster than you can navigate the waypoints. Those procedures require you to slow down about 1,000 to 1,500 feet AGL reducing pitch and cleaning up the aircraft so you can use less power. In addition I use MCP control during initial departure and final arrival because of the bank limitation and and AP tendency to start turning early on large heading changes present in some SIDs and STARs. In fact some airline operating procedures require this or hand flying in the terminal procedure areas and some at all times under 10,000 feet. (I suspect that is for maintaining pilot qualification and better collision avoidance in the heavier traffic at lower altitudes.)For best RC performance use only Interactive AI and AI Chatter with Display Text off and Prerecorded Chatter off.As far as I know the default GPS will accept all waypoints from an FS plan.Regarding my 'hint' sheet based on FSBuild, a lot of those procedures can be applied so FSC as well.If RC is behind the position of your plane then you have probably a performance issue somewhere. I wouldn't use any moving map feature as that can cause a performance hit. Unless you need online access during your flight, turn off your PC net port connection and disable any applications and services not required.I'm using Win XP Pro SP3 on a P 5 3.2 GHz pentium and there only is a very slight delay in RC recognizing the waypoint credit but that is just the display only.

Thanks again. I don't think it is a performance issue as FRAPS is showing 45 fps on my 6 cpu AMD Phenom. However, it's possible because FS Commander uses a moving map but it seems to get to a waypoint before it is actually reached.

[ronzie 21]

Try using the GPS to navigate. The problem might be windows process message congestion within FSUIPC (you are using the current version, right?). FSUIPC itself has little performance loading. Avoiding the moving map might help.

[nrcapes 0]

Try using the GPS to navigate. The problem might be windows process message congestion within FSUIPC (you are using the current version, right?). FSUIPC itself has little performance loading. Avoiding the moving map might help.

I may have diffferent symptoms of overload. I have flown the first tutorial twice (pp. 140-150 of the manual). Both flights were fine until KRENA (35 nm from ORD). According to the manual, I should have been switched to Approach 40 nm from ORD but it didn't happen until about 17 nm from ORD. Then I was given a heading 0f 110 to intercept the localizer course (132) for runway 14L.. It's obvious that that heading is not going to intercept the localizer inbound on a heading of 132 from KRENA to ORD; it would just put me further away from the localizer. I tried to turn inbound to intercept the localizer, but it was impossible that close to ORD. This happened on both flights. Could it be that Flightsim Commander (which uses FSUIPC) is sending (or requesting?) so mucn traffic to FSUIPC that RC is gettting behind? I guess I'll quit FS Commander after doing the flight plan and avoid the moving map. If I try this again, should I have DEBUG turned on?

[ronzie 21]

I am attaching an extract of JVL5 (current) and the 14L ILS. On the STAR diagram I highlighted where you said RC started giving you vectors in red. Here's the plan I put into FSBuild for my use:KDSM CID DBQ BRIBE MYTCH JVL BULLZ TEDDY KRENA ORD KORDThe ORD is so close to the runway FS Build showed a 0 distance from it to runways. Also, from ORD to the airport is a heading of 195. ORD would be ignored by RC anyway, it's just a target for navigation heading but it would be a convoluted intercept to the 14's anyway - I'd leave it out of the plan to RC. The localizer course is 143 for 14 L and 14R from the current charts at flightaware.com. Your heading to ORD was about 131, FSB route image attached.RC normally plans an intercept about 15 miles out and your almost straight in arrival only needs a minor course adjustment for the intercept to join at the IF PLUNC and a left turn to 110 might be in order for being that close since the extended 14s runways could be to your left. Hard to say. Compare the location coordinates of KORD from your flight plan, the a4.csv file (open with wordpad or notepad only after making a backup) in your rc4.data folder, to see if they match.RC should have started issuing vectors about 10 nm past KRENNA.Let us know how you make out without the moving map running and using the GPS for navigation. Remember not to leave an outstanding ACK in the menu as it will stall RC.While debug can issue a performance hit your flight is pretty short. I think you can pause FS before Janesville, alt-tab to RC to start Debug, and alt-tab back to FS to unpause and continue the flight.

[nrcapes 0]

I am attaching an extract of JVL5 (current) and the 14L ILS. On the STAR diagram I highlighted where you said RC started giving you vectors in red. Here's the plan I put into FSBuild for my use:KDSM CID DBQ BRIBE MYTCH JVL BULLZ TEDDY KRENA ORD KORDThe ORD is so close to the runway FS Build showed a 0 distance from it to runways. Also, from ORD to the airport is a heading of 195. ORD would be ignored by RC anyway, it's just a target for navigation heading but it would be a convoluted intercept to the 14's anyway - I'd leave it out of the plan to RC. The localizer course is 143 for 14 L and 14R from the current charts at flightaware.com. Your heading to ORD was about 131, FSB route image attached.RC normally plans an intercept about 15 miles out and your almost straight in arrival only needs a minor course adjustment for the intercept to join at the IF PLUNC and a left turn to 110 might be in order for being that close since the extended 14s runways could be to your left. Hard to say. Compare the location coordinates of KORD from your flight plan, the a4.csv file (open with wordpad or notepad only after making a backup) in your rc4.data folder, to see if they match.RC should have started issuing vectors about 10 nm past KRENNA.Let us know how you make out without the moving map running and using the GPS for navigation. Remember not to leave an outstanding ACK in the menu as it will stall RC.While debug can issue a performance hit your flight is pretty short. I think you can pause FS before Janesville, alt-tab to RC to start Debug, and alt-tab back to FS to unpause and continue the flight.

Paused before JVL. ALT-TAB to RC, but Debug is grayed out. Now what?

[ronzie 21]

I guess you'll have to start it before loading your plan and starting RC.

[nrcapes 0]

Paused before JVL. ALT-TAB to RC, but Debug is grayed out. Now what?

Ran it again with DEBUG on just before JVL. Same problem. I am inbound on about 132 deg and at TEDDY Approach turns me to 50 deg. At KRENA Approach clears me for ILS 14L and turns me to 110 deg. But that heading will never intercept the localzer course of 143 - it diverges from it.I zipped the rcv4.log but the forum won't allow me to attach it; same with the non-zipped file.Having the moving map turned off didn't make any difference.

[ronzie 21]

The file is way too big to attach here anyway. All you can attach to my knowledge are small size .jpg images.See the thread at the forum head on how and what to send in to jd@jdtllc.com . Refer to this thread link:http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=135&t=334678 in your e-mail and attach the zipped log file (you might rename it in the folder so it doesn't get written over), a copy of your .pln file (in your My Documents/Flight Simulator or Flight Simulator X folder), and the line from a4.csv (open with Wordpad or notepad, not Excel, search for KORD, and copy then paste that line into the e-mail, then exit the file without saving anything so it doesn't get corrupted) in your RC4/data folder. Describe briefly your problem.