Captain Sim 707 and B-52

[AWACS 12]

Hi all, I love that CS does classic planes, but I have two questions before I buy, if you could help me out.1. Is the 707 for FSX the same as their old FS9 version, or have they made improvements to it? I own the FS9 version, and I remember it seemed quite incomplete, how is it now for FSX?2. How is their B-52? The pictures look great, the fight deck even looks complete. So........... how is it!!!!!????? I love the B-52, I'm excited to hear your responses on this one.Thanks!

[Guest acezboy561]

I believe the 707 is a complete re-build. It has 3D gauges.

[Highmike 68]

I've got the B52 and it's a lot of fun to fly. I've found that CS sometimes struggles when modelling a complex airliner, but the B52 is fairly simple compared with the 757 and CS have got it just right.

[B747400F 0]

How is the virtual cockpit and FDE?

[Highmike 68]

You can see the VC for yourself here:http://www.captainsim.com/products/x520/vc.htmlIf there's one thing CS is good at then it is VC modelling and painting, in a word superb!As for flight dynamics I have no experience with the real thing to compare it with so I couldn't say for sure, but when you get it off the ground it feels kinda heavy, it's got a lot of inertia, and it takes a lot of room to turn it around. It's very fast at low altitude but about the same speed as a heavy jet at altitude. The fuel range of this bird is enormous - it could probably fly from Sydney to London non stop.The autopilot has been modelled so that you have to hit keyboard combinations to get it to engage properly, but turning from runway heading to departure heading and then trimming it before engaging the autopilot is probably the most fun you'll have with this bird - it trims very nicely.

[Chock 17,769]

The CS FSX 707 is very good, in fact I've nearly completed an extremely exhaustive review of it for Avsim after flying the &@($* off the thing for ages, testing everything it has. For that I used a real B707 manual to compare systems which I bought from Essco, so I can tell you that it is in fact a pretty comprehensive simulation of the real article, where more or less everything in the virtual cockpit works in a fashion similar to a real B707.Some of these features actually work a little bit better than they would on the real thing, as an example, you can abuse the starters a bit, cranking two or more engines at once and they will fire up, which you'd never do on a real one as it simply wouldn't have the available power to make that happen (that and the fact that you have to watch for a hot start, especially if there is a tailwind), but if you actually stick to the proper procedures, you would never know that the CS 707 does that, so it's only when you stray outside the correct procedures that you'd spot this kind of stuff. Thus you can play with it following the real procedures and have it behave correctly, which means if you like sitting there and doing it all properly with a manual on your knee, you really can do that and get a convincing simulation of a real 707, where there is very little that is not like a real one.As far as a real 707 is concerned, we are talking about an aircraft that was operated using either VOR, INS or doppler navigation, and you can do all of those in the CS 707 in exactly the same way as pilots did on the real one, so if you really do want to fly a 707 like they did when these things ruled the airways, this is the one for you.Having said that, this is not possible without a little bit of work on your part: As it comes, the CS 707 does not have an INS system, but it is built ready to have one fitted by you, this being the freeware one that you can download (CS give you the link in the documentation), which integrates right into the cockpit when you do so, although you do have to alter the config file to make that so. Don't worry if that sounds complex, because you do get walked through that in the documentation, and it requires nothing more complex than to type in a line or two of text to alter the panel configuration and then you are good to go.Once you have the INS fitted, then you have a bit more work to do if you want to navigate using it, this is because by default, FS does not allow one to plot a flight course via map coordinates, and you need those coordinates to key into the INS if you want to fly using that method. The way around this, is to plot a route with the FS flight planner and then make a note of the coordinates of various VORs and reporting points etc on a bit of paper, then you will be able to replicate the route by typing those coordinates into the INS. In the grand scheme of things this is not really a big deal and in actual fact this is a bit like what the real pilots of 707s had to do, but it does mean that you will be having to spend more than five minutes setting up an INS flight if you want to do it in a realistic fashion.If on the other hand you want to use doppler navigation, then the CS 707 has a good stab at simulating this, although expect to be reading up a bit on how that works, because there have been few, if any, FS add-on aeroplanes that featured this, and FS was never really geared for emulating this method of navigation, so it will probably be something new to you (it certainly was to me). Needless to say, accurately simulating such a system in FS has meant a few tricks have had to be pulled, in a similar vein to how CS got a weather radar to work more or less convincingly, so don't expect it to be absolutely bang on, but there is no doubt that CS deserve credit for having a crack at it.As far as forming an opinion on how closely the CS 707 simulates how the real 707 flies for the purposes of a review, my own knowledge of that consisted of reading some flight tests of the real 707 which I had in copies of old pilot magazines from years and years ago, reading the manual I bought (which is a pilot training manual, so it does explain how the 707 is supposed to handle), and having had a few flights in real life on a Boeing 720, which is not identical to a standard 707, but it was a 707 variant with better slats, so a reasonably similar experience, and thus I recall how it felt in a turn and how noisy it was, how long it took to rotate and how it was pitched on approach, for example, I recall nearly having a heart attack the first time I was on a 720 and the gear came down, as it was not only incredibly noisy, but the aircraft was shaking and shuddering far more than a modern jet does when you dangle the dunlops.The 707 was very often nicknamed 'the lead sled' by its pilots, because the control surfaces - and rudder in particular - were not provided with much hydraulic assistance, so you apparently had to really give the controls a fair bit of a shove to overcome aerodynamic loads, as well as taking into account some control response lag, this was not desperately bad by any means, but it was a feature nevertheless. Of course with no fly by wire control surface limiters to prevent over-controlling, this also meant that pilots had to strike a balance between knowing how hard to push, and when they were pushing too hard. One or two B707s were lost by what was thought to be over-controlling the rudder to counter turbulence, something that has happened to a few modern jets too of course, so this is not a feature unique to the 707, but it does point up that pilots of those older jets really did have to know how to fly properly. I personally recall getting a stern reprimand from a flight instructor once when I was learning to fly for sticking too much rudder in when we were going pretty fast, which risked putting too much side load on the tail (I didn't know any better at the time), and this is the kind of thing you would have to watch for on an old jet like the 707.This fact is conveyed well in the CS 707's flight modeling, with their simulation of the big old 707 managing to really feel like a heavy jet that does not have the control sophistication of more modern jetliners. In short, it feels like you are really in charge of the thing and so have to anticipate rolling out on headings a little early if you want to nail it perfectly owing to the amount of inertia the thing seems to have.To me this makes it one of the more convincing airliner experiences FS has to offer, and I am greatly impressed by the 'feel' CS have given their 707, as it does give it an immense amount of believable character rather than simply being just another lookalike that flies the same as any other FS jet. Beyond the simulation itself, the modeling is lovely, and there are the usual wealth of CS eye candy features we know CS like to indulge in. That's a combination which makes the CS 707 their best effort yet, because in this case it also flies as good as it looks, which bodes well for their forthcoming 737.The B-52 on the other hand, is something I really only sort of know in passing from a few books and films, and I've not indulged in the kind of studies I did for the 707 review I'm doing, so I'll admit that I know very little about the real thing, but I have got the CS one. To me it looks good and the cockpit is full of enough features to make it tough to learn and fun to fly (lots of fancy nav equipment features similar to the B707). I personally feel it is a bit overpowered on the flight model, although that is just my impression and not based on anything more than that. I certainly like it, and I guess fans of the BUFF will too, so it is worth having in my opinion, but someone who knows the real thing better than I do might not agree with that, then again, they might completely agree.You won't be sorry if you buy either of these birds, but in particular you will be impressed by the B707, and if it doesn't put a smile on your face, I'd be very surprised. Well worth the money in my opinion.Al

[rservice 4]

The CS FSX 707 is very good, in fact I've nearly completed an extremely exhaustive review of it for Avsim after flying the &@($* off the thing for ages, testing everything it has. For that I used a real B707 manual to compare systems which I bought from Essco, so I can tell you that it is in fact a pretty comprehensive simulation of the real article, where more or less everything in the virtual cockpit works in a fashion similar to a real B707.Some of these features actually work a little bit better than they would on the real thing, as an example, you can abuse the starters a bit, cranking two or more engines at once and they will fire up, which you'd never do on a real one as it simply wouldn't have the available power to make that happen (that and the fact that you have to watch for a hot start, especially if there is a tailwind), but if you actually stick to the proper procedures, you would never know that the CS 707 does that, so it's only when you stray outside the correct procedures that you'd spot this kind of stuff. Thus you can play with it following the real procedures and have it behave correctly, which means if you like sitting there and doing it all properly with a manual on your knee, you really can do that and get a convincing simulation of a real 707, where there is very little that is not like a real one.As far as a real 707 is concerned, we are talking about an aircraft that was operated using either VOR, INS or doppler navigation, and you can do all of those in the CS 707 in exactly the same way as pilots did on the real one, so if you really do want to fly a 707 like they did when these things ruled the airways, this is the one for you.Having said that, this is not possible without a little bit of work on your part: As it comes, the CS 707 does not have an INS system, but it is built ready to have one fitted by you, this being the freeware one that you can download (CS give you the link in the documentation), which integrates right into the cockpit when you do so, although you do have to alter the config file to make that so. Don't worry if that sounds complex, because you do get walked through that in the documentation, and it requires nothing more complex than to type in a line or two of text to alter the panel configuration and then you are good to go.Once you have the INS fitted, then you have a bit more work to do if you want to navigate using it, this is because by default, FS does not allow one to plot a flight course via map coordinates, and you need those coordinates to key into the INS if you want to fly using that method. The way around this, is to plot a route with the FS flight planner and then make a note of the coordinates of various VORs and reporting points etc on a bit of paper, then you will be able to replicate the route by typing those coordinates into the INS. In the grand scheme of things this is not really a big deal and in actual fact this is a bit like what the real pilots of 707s had to do, but it does mean that you will be having to spend more than five minutes setting up an INS flight if you want to do it in a realistic fashion.If on the other hand you want to use doppler navigation, then the CS 707 has a good stab at simulating this, although expect to be reading up a bit on how that works, because there have been few, if any, FS add-on aeroplanes that featured this, and FS was never really geared for emulating this method of navigation, so it will probably be something new to you (it certainly was to me). Needless to say, accurately simulating such a system in FS has meant a few tricks have had to be pulled, in a similar vein to how CS got a weather radar to work more or less convincingly, so don't expect it to be absolutely bang on, but there is no doubt that CS deserve credit for having a crack at it.As far as forming an opinion on how closely the CS 707 simulates how the real 707 flies for the purposes of a review, my own knowledge of that consisted of reading some flight tests of the real 707 which I had in copies of old pilot magazines from years and years ago, reading the manual I bought (which is a pilot training manual, so it does explain how the 707 is supposed to handle), and having had a few flights in real life on a Boeing 720, which is not identical to a standard 707, but it was a 707 variant with better slats, so a reasonably similar experience, and thus I recall how it felt in a turn and how noisy it was, how long it took to rotate and how it was pitched on approach, for example, I recall nearly having a heart attack the first time I was on a 720 and the gear came down, as it was not only incredibly noisy, but the aircraft was shaking and shuddering far more than a modern jet does when you dangle the dunlops.The 707 was very often nicknamed 'the lead sled' by its pilots, because the control surfaces - and rudder in particular - were not provided with much hydraulic assistance, so you apparently had to really give the controls a fair bit of a shove to overcome aerodynamic loads, as well as taking into account some control response lag, this was not desperately bad by any means, but it was a feature nevertheless. Of course with no fly by wire control surface limiters to prevent over-controlling, this also meant that pilots had to strike a balance between knowing how hard to push, and when they were pushing too hard. One or two B707s were lost by what was thought to be over-controlling the rudder to counter turbulence, something that has happened to a few modern jets too of course, so this is not a feature unique to the 707, but it does point up that pilots of those older jets really did have to know how to fly properly. I personally recall getting a stern reprimand from a flight instructor once when I was learning to fly for sticking too much rudder in when we were going pretty fast, which risked putting too much side load on the tail (I didn't know any better at the time), and this is the kind of thing you would have to watch for on an old jet like the 707.This fact is conveyed well in the CS 707's flight modeling, with their simulation of the big old 707 managing to really feel like a heavy jet that does not have the control sophistication of more modern jetliners. In short, it feels like you are really in charge of the thing and so have to anticipate rolling out on headings a little early if you want to nail it perfectly owing to the amount of inertia the thing seems to have.To me this makes it one of the more convincing airliner experiences FS has to offer, and I am greatly impressed by the 'feel' CS have given their 707, as it does give it an immense amount of believable character rather than simply being just another lookalike that flies the same as any other FS jet. Beyond the simulation itself, the modeling is lovely, and there are the usual wealth of CS eye candy features we know CS like to indulge in. That's a combination which makes the CS 707 their best effort yet, because in this case it also flies as good as it looks, which bodes well for their forthcoming 737.The B-52 on the other hand, is something I really only sort of know in passing from a few books and films, and I've not indulged in the kind of studies I did for the 707 review I'm doing, so I'll admit that I know very little about the real thing, but I have got the CS one. To me it looks good and the cockpit is full of enough features to make it tough to learn and fun to fly (lots of fancy nav equipment features similar to the B707). I personally feel it is a bit overpowered on the flight model, although that is just my impression and not based on anything more than that. I certainly like it, and I guess fans of the BUFF will too, so it is worth having in my opinion, but someone who knows the real thing better than I do might not agree with that, then again, they might completely agree.You won't be sorry if you buy either of these birds, but in particular you will be impressed by the B707, and if it doesn't put a smile on your face, I'd be very surprised. Well worth the money in my opinion.Al

There is also a lot of help available on the CS forums.Lou has flown this aircraft and hs a lot of personal experience,insightand humorous stories to tell.Ron

[StamPilot 4]

Yeah Lou is great guy, it is very interesting to read all his stories.

[AWACS 12]

I look forward to your review Alan, thanks.