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pampiermole

Why fly with 2d panel?

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I saw many people requesting pics of 2d panels. I always wondered why people want these anyway. The virtual cockpit is soooooo much better then 2d (well, in my humble opinion). People are always wondering if the plane is realistic. 2d isn't, right? So why an 2d panel?

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I saw many people requesting pics of 2d panels. I always wondered why people want these anyway. The virtual cockpit is soooooo much better then 2d (well, in my humble opinion). People are always wondering if the plane is realistic. 2d isn't, right? So why an 2d panel?
Why? Because it takes the level of work off to fly the plane. For me I love the 2 d panels such as the fmc and overhead. I hate looking away from flight to hit a switch or turn on something. I love the virtual cockpit but pop up panels are a must for me.

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I saw many people requesting pics of 2d panels. I always wondered why people want these anyway. The virtual cockpit is soooooo much better then 2d (well, in my humble opinion). People are always wondering if the plane is realistic. 2d isn't, right? So why an 2d panel?
Why fly with the 3D/virtual? Each to their own. Maybe the virtual looks or works better for some after a 'funny' smoke im KHAM! (just a joke!)

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I saw many people requesting pics of 2d panels. I always wondered why people want these anyway. The virtual cockpit is soooooo much better then 2d (well, in my humble opinion). People are always wondering if the plane is realistic. 2d isn't, right? So why an 2d panel?
I am also one of those persons who still use the 2D panel. My reason is that in my opinion in the VC the person is not be placed on the correct position as in a real plane. I think the person sits too far away from the panel. But I have to say I do not know if this problem is already solved.Secondly, for example when you want to turn on the APU Bleed Switch you have to move your body a little bit to the right when you sit in a real plane on the captain´s seat to have the overhead panel approx. in the middle of your view. But in the VC you see the overhead panel and also the FMC for instance too much from the side view - the angle is too high. So you cannot take a close look from the top. I hope you understand what I mean. It´s not realistic for me. And this prevents me from using VC up to now. In addition, the qualities of the VCs are not the best - it reminds me on the graphics from 1998. I know that´s a question of frame rates. I have not the best hardware too.To summarize: I feel no enthusiasm and fun when I fly with a VC.But I will not exclude that maybe the NGX can change my attitudes :(

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teamin 4 posts, we have all sides of the coin (there is more than 2 you know).we should all thank PMDG that they have the skills & presence to cater for all "tastes" ... unlike another developer I could mention !!of interest to me would be to hear some reports from the beta team on how they fly the NGX ... including accounting for weather (atis), atc, sid / star entry particularly on approach below FL200.

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I am also one of those persons who still use the 2D panel. My reason is that in my opinion in the VC the person is not be placed on the correct position as in a real plane. I think the person sits too far away from the panel. But I have to say I do not know if this problem is already solved.Secondly, for example when you want to turn on the APU Bleed Switch you have to move your body a little bit to the right when you sit in a real plane on the captain´s seat to have the overhead panel approx. in the middle of your view. But in the VC you see the overhead panel and also the FMC for instance too much from the side view - the angle is too high. So you cannot take a close look from the top. I hope you understand what I mean. It´s not realistic for me. And this prevents me from using VC up to now. In addition, the qualities of the VCs are not the best - it reminds me on the graphics from 1998. I know that´s a question of frame rates. I have not the best hardware too.To summarize: I feel no enthusiasm and fun when I fly with a VC.But I will not exclude that maybe the NGX can change my attitudes :(
The only problem that I have with the VC is the navigating in it.In FS2Crew for the JS41 there is a kind of "view-switcher" which takes you to the desired view in the VC , kind like the panelswitcher (2D) in the 747-400.Or, maybe the use of 2d-popup-panels (FMC, Overhead etc) in a 3D environment is an option.Regards,Wijnand (EHBK)

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Also, many people use multiple monitors. So for example, they may use one monitor for the VC and two or three monitors for the 2D panel.I only have one monitor though so I use VC for taxiing, take-off, and landing. I'm thinking about buy 2 more monitors.

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teamin 4 posts, we have all sides of the coin (there is more than 2 you know).we should all thank PMDG that they have the skills & presence to cater for all "tastes" ... unlike another developer I could mention !!of interest to me would be to hear some reports from the beta team on how they fly the NGX ... including accounting for weather (atis), atc, sid / star entry particularly on approach below FL200.
It flies by the book. Just finished a 6 hr test going through the unreliable speed tables and the numbers are on the spot. Same for the fuel flow in multiple configs where the fuel burn is within +/- 1% to what you read in the FPPM. This is something extremely hard to achieve so thumbs up to the developers. As for the handling, all the fun starts when you disengage the AP. It flies like a charm. Smooth and relaxed with all the unique characteristics of the NG (yes it's slippery...). The NGX is unlike anything else in the FS market. It feels right because it actually flies right! A true milestone for the hobby.

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One other reason for 2D many flyer's use one monitor for pilot PFD AND ND, and one monitor for engine instrument display and one for FMC, many use touchscreen . For outside view one to three projectors using THTG and with this config a VC will not work as the panels have to be moved around and resize. If LCD monitors are enclosed in a home cockpit this gives as close to a real sim as you can get in the home. I use four LCD monitors, pilot and FO displays use a video splitter and touchscreen for FMC. Three projectors for outside view.percy clapp

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It flies by the book. Just finished a 6 hr test going through the unreliable speed tables and the numbers are on the spot. Same for the fuel flow in multiple configs where the fuel burn is within +/- 1% to what you read in the FPPM. This is something extremely hard to achieve so thumbs up to the developers. As for the handling, all the fun starts when you disengage the AP. It flies like a charm. Smooth and relaxed with all the unique characteristics of the NG (yes it's slippery...). The NGX is unlike anything else in the FS market. It feels right because it actually flies right! A true milestone for the hobby.
panthanks for your notes ............. just like any PMDG plane, just better !!what I was hoping to hear from the beta team was along the lines of the topic - for example, when & where you fly VC, do you setup at the gate in 2D, do you use TrackIR, multiple monitors (how), touchscreens, CDU hardware for input, joystick buttons for switching etc.I can only assume PMDG gives you guidelines on how to beta the plane using their thoughts on how on avearge it will be used by us now & with emerging technology (cheapish touchscreens).any notes will i'm sure be appreciated by many.

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One other reason for 2D many flyer's use one monitor for pilot PFD AND ND, and one monitor for engine instrument display and one for FMC, many use touchscreen . For outside view one to three projectors using THTG and with this config a VC will not work as the panels have to be moved around and resize. If LCD monitors are enclosed in a home cockpit this gives as close to a real sim as you can get in the home. I use four LCD monitors, pilot and FO displays use a video splitter and touchscreen for FMC. Three projectors for outside view.percy clapp
percycan i ask what size & brand of touchscreen you use ?

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I agree with the OP. Flying from the 2D panel is so FS9! :( Even with FS9, the only reason I flew from the 2D is because in FS9 the VC's were really screwy (slow refresh rate on the instruments and naff quality textures).Virtual Cockpits is something Microsoft did manage to get right in FSX. They're so good I don't see any need to use the 2D at all. It's so much more immersive to be in a 3D environment.Regards,Tom Wright

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Real men fly 2d™. The problem with VC is that its such a hassle to find the clickspots after having panned the view around a bit. Instead of wasting valuable time finding the clickspot I prefer to use a 2d panel. Its the practical solution

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How about this? Some people would rather fly with only a 2D panel. Some people would rather fly with a VC panel. Each enjoys their way of using FS. Same reasoning as to why some folks would prefer, for example, a Buick, and some people would prefer a Toyota. What's the problem? Jack Fentress

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some folks would prefer a Buick, and some people would prefer a Toyota. What's the problem? Jack Fentress
On a Toyota, the problem would probably be the brakes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8497471.stmAl

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percycan i ask what size & brand of touchscreen you use ?
I use a majic touch screen over a 15 inch LCD monitor that displays both the FMC and lower display unit. Works great. If you want to see another whole side to cockpits go to mycockpit.org and take a look arouned you will see another side of flight sim.percy clapp

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Personally, I fly using a combination of the VC and 2D. My main cockpit view is in the VC, and I manually adjust the cockpit viewpoint so it is facing the main panel, and it actually looks like a 2D panel, but it is 3D and in the VC. I then use the 2D panels for the overhead, pedestal, etc. Or, if the developer has provided built in views for the overhead and pedestal (like the JS4100), then I will use those viewpoints for the other panels.

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Real men fly 2d™. The problem with VC is that its such a hassle to find the clickspots after having panned the view around a bit. Instead of wasting valuable time finding the clickspot I prefer to use a 2d panel. Its the practical solution
Real men use enough hardware with buttons/switches that you don't have to use a clickspot. :)I fly with a Saitek yoke, two throttle quads, and pedals.I can't remember the last time I had to use the mouse in the cockpit when the wheels were off the ground.Setting up your cockpit flows at the gate isn't bad using the mouse when the screen isn't moving (assuming you use TrackIR/head latency for VC).

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Hi 2D lovers!I used to be a 2D panel lover in FS9 as I used 2D panels to setup the aircraft and flying when the sim was on heavy load. Since I am using FSX now, I do not use 2d panels but only VC. I am used to it but sometimes I would like to fly a 2D panel just on heavy nice scenery.My problem is that with FSX I can't setup the point of view with 2D panel as easily as with FS9. It is so hard to setup to be able to see the runway clearly at Take Off and same at landing without messing with point of view adjustment during approach. So my question is : How do you setup the point of view in the main 2D panel in FSX? What are the commands which allow to do that?Thanks in advance!Pierre Lainé

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panthanks for your notes ............. just like any PMDG plane, just better !!what I was hoping to hear from the beta team was along the lines of the topic - for example, when & where you fly VC, do you setup at the gate in 2D, do you use TrackIR, multiple monitors (how), touchscreens, CDU hardware for input, joystick buttons for switching etc.I can only assume PMDG gives you guidelines on how to beta the plane using their thoughts on how on avearge it will be used by us now & with emerging technology (cheapish touchscreens).any notes will i'm sure be appreciated by many.
Hey John!As RSR stated on his latest post, we're not the "wide" beta team that will try various PC configurations, modules etc. We're 737 pilots, engineers, MX people and so on. We work on different aspects of the aircraft. Lately, for example, I've been testing a lot the flight dynamics/performance/flying behavior of the NGX working very close with the developer in charge of this. Other people are testing electrics, pneumatics etc to a level of detail that only an aircraft engineer could understand. I'm talking about hard core system simulation with information directly from the maintenance manual. You will even find known "glitches" of the real aircraft occurring in the sim...Now if you ask what's my way of flying the aircraft, I use a dual monitor configuration. I have the CDU dragged on the second and the virtual cockpit on the first. The only controls I have is the Saitek yoke and rudder pedals. No TrackIR here. I use a hat switch for panning around. As for the WX I use ASE. I have various buttons assigned, like gear up/down, flaps, AP disconnect, AT arm/disarm, TOGA, trim etc. I rarely go to the 2D. I do all preflight in the VC.

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....I fly with a Saitek yoke, two throttle quads, and pedals.I can't remember the last time I had to use the mouse in the cockpit when the wheels were off the ground.Setting up your cockpit flows at the gate isn't bad using the mouse when the screen isn't moving (assuming you use TrackIR/head latency for VC).
How do you deal with stuff like radar vectors, changing altitude, changing radio frequency, tuning VORs/ILS etc?

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Pan,You obviously fly the NGX by profession.What is your opinion on the current state of the aicraft from the pilot's point of view? Does it feel like the real counterpart, and what aspects would you especially like to mention in this regard (good or bad) ?thank you!kind rgds,Tero Partanen

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Real men fly 2d™. The problem with VC is that its such a hassle to find the clickspots after having panned the view around a bit. Instead of wasting valuable time finding the clickspot I prefer to use a 2d panel. Its the practical solution
I fly VC only and have nver found click spots to be a problem at all to find. Maybe when you first get the a/c and are figuring out where everything is, but after a few hours of orientation its not a problem, for me anyway. The only 2D panel I am forced to use is in the LDS 767 for the FMC since you can manage it in the VC. Other than that I much prefer to use a VC over 2D panels, and if you get your point of view and zoom dialed in really well it makes finding everything real easy and looks more like your seated in an a/c rather than a 2D panel in your face.I would also say that with the advent of EZdok, you can preset buttons on your yoke/stick/throttle/keyboard which will automatically pan your view to the overhead, FMC, throttle quadrant, etc. That in combination of panning usinga hat switch or TrackIR has made the 2D panel obsolete for me.Back in the FS9 days I was forced to use 2D panels only because my computer at the time wasn't good enough to run them in the VC, as well as the fact that back then a lot of a/c you couldn't fly 100% from the VC so you ended up having to use 2D panels a lot anyway.Sean Campbell

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I use both VC (outside view) and 2D panels (instruments etc...)Any add-on without 2D panels is completely useless for me.Bert Van Bulck

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Hey John!As RSR stated on his latest post, we're not the "wide" beta team that will try various PC configurations, modules etc. We're 737 pilots, engineers, MX people and so on. We work on different aspects of the aircraft. Lately, for example, I've been testing a lot the flight dynamics/performance/flying behavior of the NGX working very close with the developer in charge of this. Other people are testing electrics, pneumatics etc to a level of detail that only an aircraft engineer could understand. I'm talking about hard core system simulation with information directly from the maintenance manual. You will even find known "glitches" of the real aircraft occurring in the sim...Now if you ask what's my way of flying the aircraft, I use a dual monitor configuration. I have the CDU dragged on the second and the virtual cockpit on the first. The only controls I have is the Saitek yoke and rudder pedals. No TrackIR here. I use a hat switch for panning around. As for the WX I use ASE. I have various buttons assigned, like gear up/down, flaps, AP disconnect, AT arm/disarm, TOGA, trim etc. I rarely go to the 2D. I do all preflight in the VC.
panthanks again ... it is very much how i "fly"- assuming you are using an undocked 2D CDU on the 2nd (touchscreen?) monitor (much more fps friendly than an undocked VC equivalent).i also use buttons for heading, vs/fpa and speed intervention,lights, wipers,autobrake et alia.i do however think TrackIR is great for panning to check switching etc.- and of course that bit of manual work below 1000` & on the ground.in closing, thanks & enjoy your beta role - i suppose I may need to park my LDS for a while hard that it may be.

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