Very enlightening, Mike. Thanks for stating that attitude. :smile:Partial quoting in conjunction with 'LOL' sentences always makes my day.Anything to add to the discussion by the way?Here's one. Having the tech team banners first and later seeing the outcome of some 'not so wise' posts may also have lead to the removal there, don't you think?At least, I get that impression when looking at some statements around. Just assuming though.There are quite some of us who will buy the PMDG, the iFly or maybe both, so from the sales aspect, there's nothing to worry about.As some guys already pointed out correctly (from reading), their concern is the attitude shown at dev A and at dev B, C or any other one. It seems like people can actually sense a difference in some acting, totally unrelated to the actual product qualities.Sort of a soft skill item, I know. But worth thinking or talking about it, if posts get read and understood in full.So, since some of us are looking at the whole package, may we discuss such things? Thank you. :smile:This is no PMDG bash tread, it's a comparison of some kind, including mentalities and attitudes shown. Quite valid in my humble eyes.

LOL people want to trash PMDG for taking awhile and lack of update and broken promises, what about the level-d 757 and radar contact 5. Are those considered vaporware yet?BTW I want to see how great the customer service is over at IFLY after a few years of them having to answer the same stupid question over and over, will steve turn into darryl from level-d

Another 'LOL' sentence.I couldn't see any bashing taking place at those devs. Are you sure you've got the point of some concerns, Mike?And what's that Level D support 'complain' now?And, if you think that my posts force other people to leave the forums, please contact a mod instantly.

... it's about attitude and service, for me anyway...

Hi Jay... Their attitude is not the best YES. But don't you think you're going a little too far about the "service" part? I mean their service is good. Not as good as VRS's for instance but I really feel like, at the end of the day and in most cases, you get what you want from PMDG.

Edited July 11, 201114 yr by Epikk

The service part will always be a personal biased one, you are absolutely right, Fritz.It's just a difference if you get a honest 'how can I help you?' or a 'we've already sold thousands of copies, there can't be a flaw' as an answer for example.The perception differs and nobody asks for wonders to happen there. I for one can't complain about the service, although the thing about the hold function did of course put a downside on my 'detailed' product. Delays of years also do.If the dev then starts those mentioned direct and indirect bashes on other devs, I can't applaud to it, I never will. A reasonable reaction in my eyes, but open to critics of course.

At the end of the story all serious simmer will have at least one of them. Then we finally could stick to the topic subject, a comparison between product A x B. For now, it's impossible.

Yeah, you too.I wonder if you've read any of my posts in whole, at least they make use of some paragraphs to allow this more easily. After your very emotional assumptions about people on the Net I don't question your flight sim based competence at all, but I think all social parts and explanations are better left to other guys around.So tell me, now banner-less tester, why do you company guys bash other companies then? Your overwhelming monologue didn't answer that question. Intentionally?'We are good' isn't a bad statement at all, but 'look at them, they are so wrong' is. No other way of showing confidence available?Of course other devs are nice and respectful towards others, at least in forums all over the place. That's what we are expecting from matured people to act like.But, as you may have noticed, we're talking about one big exception here which also has some room for improvements on the product side.And, as appearance/policy and product quality impression are related on the customer's side, one may wonder what drives people into the bashing waters then, first of all harming their own image. :(

Your post is kinda of proving my point about the lack of social interaction causes a person to be more offensive/attacking when hiddwn behind a computer. But then again, maybe I am taking you the wrong way, hence benefit of the doubt.But in reference to your bannerless comment the "why does your company" answers it all. I do not work for PMDG so why are you saying MY company. I can be thought of an a 3rd party contractor if you really wanna get down do it.

One huge issue in your discourse .. PMDG is a business, and as such, it has to put aside all "personal" frustrations when interacting with its customers. Can you imagine AT&T responding to a customer who asked about the timing on the new "soon to be released" features .. saying, that they will be done when they are done, stop asking until we tell you more. Or, AT&T taking jabs at Comcast in its email interaction with its customers. When you decide to have a business, you have to rise above all personal emotion.Most people buy from a company based on its products and customer service. Many companies have had equal or better products, but, had poor customer service ... and many of these companies didn't survive.

I tend to agree BUT look at it this way.DAY 1-AT&T Rep - thanks for calling AT&T, how may I help you?Customer - this is John Doe calling, I have seen the ad about product XX and I am very interested and I am curious as to when it will be available. AT&T Rep - I would like to thank you for calling and expressing interest in our product. Due to (whatever reason) we are unable to reveal release dates for it at this time but if you monitor our website we will be keeping you informed as to what is happening from time to time.DAY 2-AT&T Rep - thanks for calling AT&T, how may I help you?Customer - this is John Doe calling, I have seen the ad about product XX and I am very interested and I am curious as to when it will be available. AT&T Rep - I would like to thank you for calling and expressing interest in our product. Due to (whatever reason) we are unable to reveal release dates for it at this time but if you monitor our website we will be keeping you informed as to what is happening from time to time.DAY 3-AT&T Rep - thanks for calling AT&T, how may I help you?Customer - this is John Doe calling, I have seen the ad about product XX and I am very interested and I am curious as to when it will be available. AT&T Rep - I would like to thank you for calling and expressing interest in our product. Due to (whatever reason) we are unable to reveal release dates for it at this time but if you monitor our website we will be keeping you informed as to what is happening from time to time.DAY 4-AT&T Rep - thanks for calling AT&T, how may I help you?Customer - this is John Doe calling, I have seen the ad about product XX and I am very interested and I am curious as to when it will be available. AT&T Rep - hi John, weren't I talking to you yesterday about this product. If you go to the website it will keep you informed. Thank you.DAY 5-AT&T Rep - thanks for calling AT&T, how may I help you?Customer - this is John Doe calling, I have seen the ad about product XX and I am very interested and I am curious as to when it will be available. AT&T Rep - Hi again John. We DO appreciate your interest but honestly, our website will keep you more informed. Can you please refer to the website for the required information?I can see why the Rep would start to get a bit frustrated at having to talk to the same guy over and over and over. I know I would.

Jack, if you quote me in full length, please read correctly and then act on it.

So tell me, now banner-less tester, why do you company guys bash other companies then?

'you company guys', see? Not 'your company'.And that of course refers to the banner you were wearing just some days ago and for a long period of time, sorry if we still recall that picture with the 'tech team'. So if you are not related now, you at least gave the impression with that thing before, right?Now that we all know that your logics and assumptions are not PMDG related, we can still wonder why some of the PMDG stuff more or less offends with statements and thread titles in their forums, bashing competitors.Maybe your theory about the communication on the Net is more spot on than you can imagine there.Does it get better with denial? In my eyes not, but I don't form any rules here. I also didn't want to trigger large discussions about personal viewpoints.As we both see, some guys are ok, some take this 'we are so good, and others not' thingy more personal and some just don't care either way. Pick your preference. :smile:And, shouldn't you be testing something?

Very enlightening, Mike. Thanks for stating that attitude. :smile:Partial quoting in conjunction with 'LOL' sentences always makes my day.Anything to add to the discussion by the way?Here's one. Having the tech team banners first and later seeing the outcome of some 'not so wise' posts may also have lead to the removal there, don't you think?At least, I get that impression when looking at some statements around. Just assuming though.There are quite some of us who will buy the PMDG, the iFly or maybe both, so from the sales aspect, there's nothing to worry about.As some guys already pointed out correctly (from reading), their concern is the attitude shown at dev A and at dev B, C or any other one. It seems like people can actually sense a difference in some acting, totally unrelated to the actual product qualities.Sort of a soft skill item, I know. But worth thinking or talking about it, if posts get read and understood in full.So, since some of us are looking at the whole package, may we discuss such things? Thank you. :smile:This is no PMDG bash tread, it's a comparison of some kind, including mentalities and attitudes shown. Quite valid in my humble eyes.Another 'LOL' sentence.I couldn't see any bashing taking place at those devs. Are you sure you've got the point of some concerns, Mike?And what's that Level D support 'complain' now?And, if you think that my posts force other people to leave the forums, please contact a mod instantly.

i know my grammar and sentance struture sucks so your not offending me but you do look like a jerk in picking apart my post and the posts of others... btw what have you added to the discussion that is so brilliant other than your abilities as a grammar mod

i know my grammar and sentance struture sucks so your not offending me but you do look like a jerk in picking apart my post and the posts of others...

While other guys at least offer some viewpoints, you just go south with the wording, Mike. Proud of it and all there is?Inappropriate, to say the least. Have a nice day, Sir.

i know my grammar and sentance struture sucks so your not offending me but you do look like a jerk in picking apart my post and the posts of others... btw what have you added to the discussion that is so brilliant other than your abilities as a grammar mod

You shouldn't worry Mike, I am sure most of us that live on this planet have no problem with your spelling / grammar.G

Hi Jay... Their attitude is not the best YES. But don't you think you're going a little too far about the "service" part? I mean their service is good. Not as good as VRS's for instance but I really feel like, at the end of the day and in most cases, you get what you want from PMDG.

Epikk, I meant exaclty what I wrote, and I will give you a little background. I have a lot of their planes, and when I asked a question about one, I was ignored, I asked again, ignored again, and yet a third time, and was told finally "we dont have time to look at this", and this was over a 3 month period. Eventually a CUSTOMER of theirs took pily on me and answered with a very thourough explanation and fix to the issue. That was the last time I ever visited their forums or used their planes. I just wrote off the dollars I spent there as a learning experiance, end of story, and end of PMDG for me. I dont care if they had a REAL 737 for $50, with their attitude, they can keep it.

While other guys at least offer some viewpoints, you just go south with the wording, Mike. Proud of it and all there is?Inappropriate, to say the least. Have a nice day, Sir.

I have done pretty well in my life so far with my poor grammar. While I might not have gone to college, I have a lot of knowledge in a profession that I love and it has afforded me the ability to invest in this and other hobbies. Sure I could spend a ton of time fixing my grammar but that would be taking time away from learning about things that will improve my performance at work and it would also take time away from the hobbies I love. So in other words it's not important to me to impress you with great grammar. While you have great grammar skills I am quite sure I have some other skills you do not have and it's those skills that I plan to hone further to I can achieve the rest of the goals I have for my life Another thing is you failed to see the point of my post about how you attacked Jack on his lack of paragraphs, He has a skill set you do not have. He can fly a real 737, can you comprehend how that is far more impressive and useful on this forum than your super duper grammar skills.BTW nice job at the little dig about how PMDG took the tech team tags away.. I am sure people on here are really impressed.Well enjoy the rest of your day Sir

You shouldn't worry Mike, I am sure most of us that live on this planet have no problem with your spelling / grammar.G

Thank you. Someday he will realize nobody is impressed with his grammar moderator skills

I don't know who planted that huge grammar complex in the head of yours, but my initial sentence went out to Jack's posting in this way while answering to questions never asked. If you want other people to read your stuff, help them, that's all.Since your later sentences mainly consisted of the word 'LOL'(sic!) and the bashing of other devs, you shouldn't be too surprised about a slight but firm correction about the inappropriate and insulting context of your words.So whatever now offends you, it is not enough to call other guys 'jerks'. Do we agree there, Mr. 'I'm the victim!' player?Nice try by the way. ^_^I'm not writing in my mother's tongue here, in case you were wondering.Since you've also failed to get the point of some other useful posts around, I'd say that the reading ability would be the first thing to be improved, as it shows the largest potential.Feel free to report my posts as insulting, but scroll up and read them first.I'd say that the rest of your 'I'm so offended' mood can come in via PM if it really has that weight you are wanting it to have, which I doubt.

Epikk, I meant exaclty what I wrote, and I will give you a little background. I have a lot of their planes, and when I asked a question about one, I was ignored, I asked again, ignored again, and yet a third time, and was told finally "we dont have time to look at this", and this was over a 3 month period. Eventually a CUSTOMER of theirs took pily on me and answered with a very thourough explanation and fix to the issue. That was the last time I ever visited their forums or used their planes. I just wrote off the dollars I spent there as a learning experiance, end of story, and end of PMDG for me. I dont care if they had a REAL 737 for $50, with their attitude, they can keep it.

But the issue was finally solved, right?

Epikk, I meant exaclty what I wrote, and I will give you a little background. I have a lot of their planes, and when I asked a question about one, I was ignored, I asked again, ignored again, and yet a third time, and was told finally "we dont have time to look at this", and this was over a 3 month period. Eventually a CUSTOMER of theirs took pily on me and answered with a very thourough explanation and fix to the issue. That was the last time I ever visited their forums or used their planes. I just wrote off the dollars I spent there as a learning experiance, end of story, and end of PMDG for me. I dont care if they had a REAL 737 for $50, with their attitude, they can keep it.

Very BAD personal experience indeed. I can understand now. This never happened to me, so of course, I have a different opinion about their service.

But, to play fair with PMDG, I'd say that this can happen at any dev if you catch the right day.Just the weight of the 'incident' itself is personally biased and therefore different from person to person. However, reasonable and sort of very stringent acting from Jay then.