Gents it is only a game.:( If they delete your post in the PMDG forum, then maybe it is because they are fed up with repeating themselves regarding the product.etc, etc, etc. This does not mean they have a bad attitude.

Deletion wasn't or isn't a problem, the bashing of other devs still is. From my experience, this over-confidence and constant 'we are so darn good' attitude is a first in the business, and hopefully a last.Combine this with waiting times for fixes and see what you'll get.If one feels the constant need to stress that he is better than others, how good can he be?Since this thread shows that some people actually recognize that tendency while the personal emphasis differs, we can speak of a nice cross-section view there.Best thing to happen in a thread. :(

I don't know who planted that huge grammar complex in the head of yours, but my initial sentence went out to Jack's posting in this way while answering to questions never asked.Since your later sentences mainly consisted of the word 'LOL'(sic!) and the bashing of other devs, you shouldn't be too surprised about a slight but firm correction about the inappropriate and insulting context of your words.So whatever now offends you, it is not enough to call other guys 'jerks'. Do we agree there, Mr. 'I'm the victim!' player?Nice try by the way. ^_^I'm not writing in my mother's tongue here, in case you were wondering.Since you've also failed to get the point of some other useful posts around, I'd say that the reading ability would be the first thing to be improved, as it shows the largest potential.Feel free to report my posts as insulting, but scroll up and read them first.I'd say that the rest of your 'I'm so offended' mood can come in via PM if it really has that weight you are wanting it to have, which I doubt.

I posted that I have the mouse over VC issue that many people have reported and that IFLY says they cannot fix, is that bashing them? should I lie and say I never had the issue? I feel the product is rushed, is that bashing them? it's my opinion just like you have a opinion about PMDG we may both be wrong. I felt the IFLY plane was well worth the money I spent ( WOW some bashing there) but judging by the features, screenshots and videos I feel it's not going to measure up to the PMDG offering. HMM I will remember that anything bad said about Ifly is bashing and anything bad said about PMDG is just pointing out how they are smug jerks that are attacking those poor folks at ifly by pointing out the weaknesses of their plane.BTW I am not playing the victim. I told you you can attack my grammar and you did and I am fine with it and I understand it's not my strong point. My issue with you is you seemed hell bent on taking jabs at Jack. with the grammar thing and then the whole sig banner thing. I just want to see guys like him stick around the forums, not many real commercial pilots post here and input from them is useful. I have no connection to PMDG, but the product they are about to release looks and sounds impressive, personally I think the jabs at Ifly is some frustration about some of the immature members of this forum and the rest of the flight sim community sadly is now aimed at IFLY and they really had nothing to do with it. I am not friends with any Ifly members or PMDG members and all I care about is the most realistic 737 that I can get. PERIOD.

Nobody around referred to your bashing or not bashing at any time, but the one from PMDG itself.But thanks for showing your class. :(

Epikk, I meant exaclty what I wrote, and I will give you a little background. I have a lot of their planes, and when I asked a question about one, I was ignored, I asked again, ignored again, and yet a third time, and was told finally "we dont have time to look at this", and this was over a 3 month period. Eventually a CUSTOMER of theirs took pily on me and answered with a very thourough explanation and fix to the issue. That was the last time I ever visited their forums or used their planes. I just wrote off the dollars I spent there as a learning experiance, end of story, and end of PMDG for me. I dont care if they had a REAL 737 for $50, with their attitude, they can keep it.

very funny .,. but, I would advise you to cast your hurt feelings aside, and pick up that REAL 737 for $50 USD :(

Nobody around referred to your bashing or not bashing at any time, but the one from PMDG itself.But thanks for showing your class. :(

I don't know why PMDG chose to take little jabs at IFLY, I might have not done that if I was running PMDG but since I am not friends with or related to IFLY in anyway it will not effect my decision on purchasing the NGX. What I was trying to say earlier is that what PMDG said about the IFLY plane is true, it would be another matter if they were lying. I also was trying to point out how companies large and small engage in this type of behavior, such as the island of misfit toys ad's or the DSL turtles I mentioned earlier. Or how about the ad's for southwest with the airline exec in court. That is how the business world is.

I'm surprised that some forum members are surprised about the competitiveness between pmdg and ifly. It's the nature of the business. You're telling me you've never seen State Farm poke at Geico?Give me a break...

Yeah, it must be perfectly normal to show confidence by bashing others while lacking own qualities. You are right, Ryan. :( That must be the world kids want to grow up in.If you want to write it down to a simple competition, you are free of course. I'd say, and the any market proves this true, that competition is done with quality and a good product package in the first place. Lack of any of those items and the self-proclaimed confidence and arrogance sets in. Doubts? Scroll back to when the iFly was released. What did we see? Some 'we're in beta since a month now' statements and a very upset PMDG acting. Did that show real confidence or just the need to proclaim confidence to the public?If some companies in some markets around give bad examples, the bad one of the flight sim market doesn't turn into a good thing. Bad things repeated often enough may turn into common but never good ones.And market science showed more than once that the worst way to get on any competitor is to use bashing, since all the negative emotions fall back at you, the guy in need to bash others.You form up some sort of protective motion at the customers in doubt which product to chose. They tend to chose the 'to protect' thingy then which isn't downside in our 737 case.That's not a normal way of 'business acting' and it, first of all, isn't a successful one.Also, if one company feels the need to seriously continue on that approach, it should at least have something to sell and not something to fix. :wink:The first buy dice already rolled.

Yeah, it must be perfectly normal to show confidence by bashing others while lacking own qualities. You are right, Ryan. :( That must be the world kids want to grow up in.If you want to write it down to a simple competition, you are free of course. I'd say, and the any market proves this true, that competition is done with quality and a good product package in the first place. Lack of any of those items and the self-proclaimed confidence and arrogance sets in. Doubts?If some companies in some market around give bad examples, the bad one of the flight sim market doesn't turn into a good thing. Bad things repeated often enough may turn into common but not good ones.And market science showed more than once that the worst way to get on any competitor is to use bashing, since all the negative emotions fall back at you, the guy in need to bash others.That's not a normal way of 'business acting' and it also isn't a successful one.Also, if one company feels the need to seriously continue on that approach, it should at least have something to sell and not something to fix. :(

PMDG was in beta, they posted they are in beta. I fail to see a problem. When the competition releases a product you need to make some news to stay relevant, again this is what goes on in the real world. They are not friends and PMDG is not under obligation to help IFLY, in fact it's smart business for them to prevent people from buying the IFLY as some people might not have the funds to own both.What I find interesting is how PMDG is so evil for taking awhile to fix stuff and IFLY is a hero for rushing a product out the door missing a lot of stuff, like how they KNEW before release that the night lighting was broken. How the hud is only in the BBJ. small things that should have been caught like no landing sounds on the 600-700. Why did they not wait until after these fixes were done before releasing? I think the obvious answer was they did not know how far away PMDG was until release and they had to beat PMDG to the market by at least 30 days. I think a lot worse goes on in the business world then the comments by PMDG.. Are you part of the IFLY team or did you have a prior problem with PMDG? I really do not see why it matters to you if PMDG points out some truthful shortcomings of a competitors product. Why are you and some others on here trying to pretend PMDG is the only one who engages in this sort of behavior. There are doing it because they can, they have seen the IFLY product and they know their product. IFLY is not in the position to rip PMDG , they do not have the prior reputation and they probably can tell the NGX is a superior product. The only people that get offended by these types of things are a really excited user and haters. the vast majority of the public is neither and the people who want a HIFI 737 will probably make a choice on factors other than how PMDG and IFLY treat each other. Hell some people will even buy the ariane plane. BTW I named some companies that have been quite successful that have had TV ad's that were FAR worse than what PMDG posted.

I think a lot worse goes on in the business world then the comments by PMDG.. Are you part of the IFLY team or did you have a prior problem with PMDG? I really do not see why it matters to you if PMDG points out some truthful shortcomings of a competitors product. Why are you and some others on here trying to pretend PMDG is the only one who engages in this sort of behavior. There are doing it because they can, they have seen the IFLY product and they know their product. IFLY is not in the position to rip PMDG , they do not have the prior reputation and they probably can tell the NGX is a superior product.

Actually I dont see PMDG doing anything here regarding the IFly plane, just some PMDG wannabes. What PMDG does in their own forum is up to them, but as always, the 'a really excited user' have to bash anyone who doesn't believe PMDG is God's gift to FS. Lack of class, plain and simple.

What PMDG does in their own forum is up to them.

Absolutely, but since it can be read, it shows class, or lack of. Since, to my knowledge, no other dev acts like this, it may be something to separate them from others.The (former?) tech guys or wide beta people tried some 'open water bashing' here and there (means outside of PMDG forums), but since they, now, don't want to be related to the dev they worked for anymore, we may see this as a nice try only.I for one can live and also support competition, but I don't support rushed viral marketing methods or plain bashing attempts, from any dev around. If just PMDG collects the bad points there, I'm sure they can take some burden then.From the logical side, if I was up for competition, I'd at least tried to keep my older products fixed and my upcoming ones ready to go soon. Selling the J41 without modelled stuff and the need to fix a major graphics issue while pointing at other devs and their accuracy isn't the best way to promote professionalism.And a tip. If you are that big and that strong that fan costumers even defend you with the too simple 'because they can' sentence, then how wise is it to actually act?You would gain so much respect if you could bash others, but just wouldn't do it. Ever thought about that?Must be a character trait way outside this (current) regime, but actually one showing real first class, don't you think?

Absolutely, but since it can be read, it shows class, or lack of. Since, to my knowledge, no other dev acts like this, it may be something to separate them from others.The (former?) tech guys or wide beta people tried some 'open water bashing' here and there (means outside of PMDG forums), but since they, now, don't want to be related to the dev they worked for anymore, we may see this as a nice try only.I for one can live and also support competition, but I don't support rushed viral marketing methods or plain bashing attempts, from any dev around. If just PMDG collects the bad points there, I'm sure they can take some burden then.From the logical side, if I was up for competition, I'd at least tried to keep my older products fixed and my upcoming ones ready to go soon. Selling the J41 without modelled stuff and the need to fix a major graphics issue while pointing at other devs and their accuracy isn't the best way to promote professionalism.And a tip. If you are that big and that strong that fan costumers even defend you with the too simple 'because they can' sentence, then how wise is it to actually act?You would gain so much respect if you could bash others, but just wouldn't do it. Ever thought about that?Must be a character trait way outside this (current) regime, but actually one showing real first class, don't you think?

Actually I dont see PMDG doing anything here regarding the IFly plane, just some PMDG wannabes. What PMDG does in their own forum is up to them, but as always, the 'a really excited user' have to bash anyone who doesn't believe PMDG is God's gift to FS. Lack of class, plain and simple.

I am not bashing anybody, and I am a a really excited user of good planes, many of those are not made by pmdg. I just am annoyed by some of the anti PMDG crowd. I kind of agree with the both of you that they did not need to comment on the IFLY plane at all, everybody is well aware of the stuff they posted and it was not smart or needed... BUT in the end it really does not matter to me, I am not buying friends I am buying a add-on and I want the most realistic one. Well I am going to own both NG's and I don't care if the guys at PMDG or IFLY are nice to each other or not.. does not mater to me we are not friends, we won't be going out for beers, so as long as I get the best NG I can get my hands on I am happy. right now that looks like the NGX. From my experience talk about lack of class and " they are being mean" is usually the topics brought up by somebody who knows they can not win a argument based on the product.. If you guys liked PMDG or were indifferent about them those comments would not bother you, but since you read them knowing you dislike them then it's "see they are jerks too" The only thing that can shade a opinion more than the a really excited user glasses is the hater glassesIf another company comes along and makes a better NG than the NGX I will buy that plane too and fly that instead. Funny thing is I bought the IFLY on release day. I knew as soon as I used it that IFLY released the plane before they were ready and I knew they did it to grab some dough before the NGX completely over shadowed it. Yet I kept the plane because as I said in the NGX progress thread at the time " If I get a month out if it I got my money worth" it's only 60 bucks. But don't you think that is kind of shady to release before it was ready just to get the money before the NGX release? I think it is. I just wish the SP and FP made it out before the NGX

Very good and interesting reads there. Especially Benjamin's one with another but totally reasonable viewpoint.That interview part on the J41 review was a very good idea in my eyes and served the reader and the company. And it's sad that you don't do more aircraft reviews, I'd like to add.

Thanks CoolP To be honest, I'd also like to keep writing reviews on aircraft. However, the current review I'm doing for simflight about the Coolsky Super80 is the perfect example for why I stopped doing it. I have been at it for several months and it's still not quite finished. A scenery is very easy: you take off in whatever you want, fly a few rounds around the airport, checking out the detail, and you're done. You then sit down for a day and write the review. A plane has to be flown and during several flights you see what it does, and if it works as advertised in the manual. This takes much more time and is much more difficult. I have basically come to a point where I had to choose: cut corners during the review, or not do aircraft reviews at all, unless I'm absolutely sure that I have the time. And, since you read my reviews, you probably see I'm not the "cut corners" type of guy. As such, the decision was easy: stop doing aircraft reviews. Besides, I think there are other people around that probably would be able to give a much more in-depth review, like Alan or Angelique. I guess that in this sense, I'm probably as much of a perfectionist as the guys at PMDG are

I'm surprised that some forum members are surprised about the competitiveness between pmdg and ifly. It's the nature of the business. You're telling me you've never seen State Farm poke at Geico?Give me a break...

Its never explicit .. normally, hidden with phrases like "the other guy".... Which in theory could be any of its competitors.

To be honest, I'd also like to keep writing reviews on aircraft. However, the current review I'm doing for simflight about the Coolsky Super80 is the perfect example for why I stopped doing it.

Keep on going, may it be scenery or aircraft stuff. The diversity of reviewers is the same good and essential driving force as the diversity of devs is.I'd say that the feedback of the readers motivates you and the motivation of yours motivates to read, a nice motivation circle, huh?

I'm probably as much of a perfectionist as the guys at PMDG are

No problem with that.

Absolutely, but since it can be read, it shows class, or lack of. Since, to my knowledge, no other dev acts like this, it may be something to separate them from others.The (former?) tech guys or wide beta people tried some 'open water bashing' here and there (means outside of PMDG forums), but since they, now, don't want to be related to the dev they worked for anymore, we may see this as a nice try only.I for one can live and also support competition, but I don't support rushed viral marketing methods or plain bashing attempts, from any dev around. If just PMDG collects the bad points there, I'm sure they can take some burden then.From the logical side, if I was up for competition, I'd at least tried to keep my older products fixed and my upcoming ones ready to go soon. Selling the J41 without modelled stuff and the need to fix a major graphics issue while pointing at other devs and their accuracy isn't the best way to promote professionalism.And a tip. If you are that big and that strong that fan costumers even defend you with the too simple 'because they can' sentence, then how wise is it to actually act?You would gain so much respect if you could bash others, but just wouldn't do it. Ever thought about that?Must be a character trait way outside this (current) regime, but actually one showing real first class, don't you think?

CoolP you are becoming quite a hypocrit here. You get mad at PMDG for "slamming" iFly but its ok for you to slam me? My Bolding your quote above is exactly that. You know as well as I that you are taking shots at me. And what's this "but since they, now, don't want to be related to the dev they worked for anymore"? Who said I don't want to be related to PMDG. I am still testing for them! And I explained to you that I don't WORK for them. How many times do I have to explain. Last time I checked I don't see a payroll deposit from PMDG in my account. I took away the banner because people "seem" to think that if I have a banner I can not express my opinion. Mike has made some very valid points such as "What I find interesting is how PMDG is so evil for taking awhile to fix stuff and IFLY is a hero for rushing a product out the door missing a lot of stuff, like how they KNEW before release that the night lighting was broken. How the hud is only in the BBJ. small things that should have been caught like no landing sounds on the 600-700. Why did they not wait until after these fixes were done before releasing?" But it "seems" you think that is OK for them to do that. You know, you gotta get rid of your hatred towards other people on here and let it be. You have been constantly attacking PMDG, myself (thanks btw since I havent insulted you once in previous posts), and people whose english may not be their mother tongue. Heck, I type like a twit sometimes one here because typing on an iPad blows goats. But you you are this first to mention to people that their "class" is lacking. I am not going to say anything but lets have a little more respect than that.