I hope like hell that flight is good. But at the same time, the NGX is coming in a couple days and although the performance will be good, knowing that flight could be even better would really make it hard for me to stay with FSX. I hope PMDG develops for flight. Looks like the default scenery is great. Weather, rain, turbulence....we will have to wait and see. But id say that MSOFT wont make the same mistakes with FSX.

Really? MSFS has never been able to cover the entire world with scenery at the level of say what you see in St. Maartin in FSX, Seattle or New York in FS2004, or Chicago in Sublogic Flight Siimulator for the C=64. It would be impossible to do, and it has never been done in the past, that was why the add-on market was and still is such an intergral part of the franchise; it is impossible for Microsoft to provide that level of detail in our lifetime. (Not to mention the fact that the world is changing even as it is being modeled.) For years Europe, Africa and the Far East was poorly covered, and is still not covered to the level detail of North America in the default sim. When you pick up a brochure for a new car, do they picture the baseline model with no frills, or one with all the extra options piled on? The world is full of similiar marketing examples; it is natural to present your best. I am ready for a new press release too.... -James

That's exactly what I was trying to get at, that is why there is a marketstore now, to sell you add-ons to make Flight look like Hawaii or maybe better by adding this and that to a specific location for a small fee each time, just keep in mind that developers will go where the money is, you will probably see the same problem about Africa or the Far East been under developed compare to let say the USA.

I don't know how it's all going to pan out, but I'm pretty sure of this... whatever happens there's going to be a huge shakeup in the FS world. Where the pieces the fall, who knows. I voted 'no' for the marketplace because, while there are some benefits to it which I like, it just adds another layer of complexity to what is already a complex process. For example, I just released a new commercial Flight Sim related iPhone app via the Apple Store. You have to wait for Apple to review the app, that takes time (up to a week or so). I was lucky to get my app approved on the first go, but if there's something wrong you then have to go through the run-around with Apple. I can see a lot of Freeware guys, if they're still around after all this, simply giving up the ghost and saying they can't be bothered with the added complexity. And how are the Marketplace workers going to "review" Flight Sim apps anyway? Generally, flightsim add-ons are 1000 times more complex than your typical iPhone app. So is whoever is going to 'review' the new add-on going to be spending large amounts of time checking for every possible thing that can go wrong with a complicated flightsim addon? Only time will tell.

I don't know how it's all going to pan out, but I'm pretty sure of this... whatever happens there's going to be a huge shakeup in the FS world. Where the pieces the fall, who knows. I voted 'no' for the marketplace because, while there are some benefits to it which I like, it just adds another layer of complexity to what is already a complex process. For example, I just released a new commercial Flight Sim related iPhone app via the Apple Store. You have to wait for Apple to review the app, that takes time (up to a week or so). I was lucky to get my app approved on the first go, but if there's something wrong you then have to go through the run-around with Apple. I can see a lot of Freeware guys, if they're still around after all this, simply giving up the ghost and saying they can't be bothered with the added complexity. And how are the Marketplace workers going to "review" Flight Sim apps anyway? Generally, flightsim add-ons are 1000 times more complex than your typical iPhone app. So is whoever is going to 'review' the new add-on going to be spending large amounts of time checking for every possible thing that can go wrong with a complicated flightsim addon? Only time will tell.

I see it just the other way .. the addon developers .. take pride in their creations. The reward for taking on that challenge, having an addon good enough for the MS marketplace. Face it guys, if the addon wasn't good, marketplace or no marketplace, it would not be downloaded much .. but let one have the MS approval, watch the download numbers soar.

...You have to wait for Apple to review the app, that takes time (up to a week or so). I was lucky to get my app approved on the first go, but if there's something wrong you then have to go through the run-around with Apple.

A week is no time at all compared to the grief a simmer goes through when loading a buggy add-on in FSX!

And how are the Marketplace workers going to "review" Flight Sim apps anyway?...So is whoever is going to 'review' the new add-on going to be spending large amounts of time checking for every possible thing that can go wrong with a complicated flightsim addon?

Add-on review can be completely automated and serialized into the add-on upload to the marketplace process: 1. Take a virgin Flight installation2. Add the add-on via the installer3. Check files only added to allowed directories4. Run the add-on (likely some manual input here)5. Check for CTDs, memory leaks.6. Unistall the Add-on via the uninstaller.7. Check: 7.a. all files added by the add-on were removed and 7.b. all files changed by the add-on were reverted to their original state.8. Generate report.9. Notify developper. All motherboards and other PC components are checked for quality via de Windows Logo program.Can't see why a similar program couldn't be developped for Flight. We simmers would certainly benefit, and so would developpers for more add-ons would be sold as simmers gain confidence new addñons won't trash their working Flight environments.

I see it just the other way .. the addon developers .. take pride in their creations. The reward for taking on that challenge, having an addon good enough for the MS marketplace. Face it guys, if the addon wasn't good, marketplace or no marketplace, it would not be downloaded much .. but let one have the MS approval, watch the download numbers soar.

Exactly! Cheers, - jahman.

How is this automatic process going to check for incompatibilities between programs and then also between hardware and operating systems? Do you realize how many different combinations of hardware, software and add-ons are out there? You can check against some plain vanilla set-up, but that doesn't match up with anything in the real world.

It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. Does the Windows Logo program assure 100% bug-free? No. But just because a quality program can't assure a product is 100% bug free doesn't mean it's not useful: The items I listed can all be checked, and should. Don't you agree? Cheers, - jahman.

No.

I see it just the other way .. the addon developers .. take pride in their creations. The reward for taking on that challenge, having an addon good enough for the MS marketplace. Face it guys, if the addon wasn't good, marketplace or no marketplace, it would not be downloaded much .. but let one have the MS approval, watch the download numbers soar.

MS 'approval' would likely not mean anything other than that the product conforms to its basic guidelines: product passes a virus scan... product contains no porn, etc. It's highly unlikely MS will censor apps based on quality. For example, I'm sure I could release an add-on called "FS Box" that simply places a box on the apron, and so long as it confirms to what's allowed and what's not allowed, I'm sure Microsoft would sell it in their store even though it would be the stupidest add-on ever. Just take a look at the Apple Store... 3/4 of the stuff in it is just plain silly. But who am I to judge what someone will like and what someone won't? That's the point. Cheers,

How is this automatic process going to check for incompatibilities between programs and then also between hardware and operating systems? Do you realize how many different combinations of hardware, software and add-ons are out there? You can check against some plain vanilla set-up, but that doesn't match up with anything in the real world.

Bingo. And even testing for things like CTDs and the catch-all for everyone problems, the so-called 'memory leaks'... is the reviewer going to spend hours and hours testing the app to see if they can trigger a CTD? I don't think so. And I don't think the Apple Store does, either. It's just not practical. They don't have the resources.

Time will tell, but I think people are giving Microsoft way to much credit as to the reasoning for having a store in the first place. Microsoft is only reacting (yet again) to what Apple is doing; they see an opportunity to make more money and being the good corporate citizens they are, will take advantage of that opportunity. All this talk about having bug free addons is just that, talk. The first step would be to create a bug free flight simulator, lets see if this can be accomplished. Regards, Mike Mann

It's sort of interesting commercial list members are against the idea Microsoft should do any testing of their add-ons. Cheers, - jahman.

Maybe it is Microsoft's motives, which are unknown at this point, that has commercial and freeware developer's concerned. Regards, Mike Mann

It's sort of interesting commercial list members are against the idea Microsoft should do any testing of their add-ons. Cheers, - jahman.

MS can test out whatever they would like of ours. Just have them use one of their business accounts, purchase any of our products they would like, and they can test until the cows come home. 2.5 years ago many of the ACES team had already PURCHASED AND USED our software for their personal and professional enjoyment. My answer is still no.

OK, so your add-ons are great. But what about other add-ons that are shoddy and can trash a simmer's FS installation thus ruining his FS experience overall? Wouldn't that simmer then be less inclined to purchase any new add-ons from you or any other developper, especially if that means he's left simming for the foreseeable future? Cheers, - jahman.

What about legitimate software that is often blamed for all of this when it is a problem at the other end? If one uses a broad brush to paint based on one experience, then maybe that is a customer that the industry doesn't need or want? Wonder how many users stopped using Windows because of one Windows crash? What about free enterprise? What about if there was a scenery package that turned every building in FS upside down called FS Anti-Matter? In the free market we have right now that developer has every right to sell FSAM. Now, if nobody purchased it that would be the market's way of saying, not good, not interested. So now what would happen? MS is going to make that call or does anything that passes this so called screening get placed in the store? My answer is still no.