Explain this please. I already argumented why that's wrong. You can have hard page faults. And hard page faults are only possible in the virtual memory scope. If you know any other way it could happen, please elaborateBy challenge I didn't mean it in an aggressive way, sorry about that, I got lost in translationI mean that it's going to be challenging for you to separate VM from MMF

I don't need to separate the VMM from MMF because the VMM does MMF! But it does so without the memory page file. The part where you're getting confused is in the name of the VMM: When the VMM is doing MMF stuff it is doing an activity completely unrelated to virtual memory management. Call the VMM "Bertha" instead. Now Bertha does VM and Bertha also does MMF. And when Bertha does MMF she doesn't care one bit (pun intended!) about the VM page file, therefore Bertha's MMF activities are outside the scope of this thread, which is whether or not a Win-32 program is adversely affected by disabling the memory paging file. Cheers, - jahman.

so the Virtual Memory Manager is doing an activity "completely unrelated to virtual memory management"care to share a link to "Bertha"?

so the Virtual Memory Manager is doing an activity "completely unrelated to virtual memory management"care to share a link to "Bertha"?

Yes! MMF is not virtual memory, it is memory-mapped file access. Two different tasks, both carried out by a program called "VMM". Essentialy what happened is they created VMM to do virtual memory management. Then they realized the same procedures could do MMF, so VMM was extended to also do MMF. Same algorithm, different task. To see how separate VMM and MMF are, a Win-32 program can access 4 GBy of RAM, but can open multiple 4 GBy files simultaneously. Obviously if VM and MMF were the same thing this would not be possible. VM and MMF are totally separate activities performed by the same program. Cheers, - jahman.

link please, or otherwise you made it all up. It doesn't make any sense. How does it work outside of virtual memory then? how does the the OS access data referenced in memory mapped files other than via virtual memory?

link please, or otherwise you made it all up. It doesn't make any sense. How does it work outside of virtual memory then? how does the the OS access data referenced in memory mapped files other than via virtual memory?

Don't be rude! Can you understand how MMF would work in an OS without virtual memory? Maybe that would help. Cheers, - jahman.

Don't be rude! Can you understand how MMF would work in an OS without virtual memory? Maybe that would help. Cheers, - jahman.

I don't think I'm being rude, I apologise if that's how I come acrossthat being said I'm pretty sure I already asked you to explain how MMF would work outside of VM I'm gonna call it a day. This is not going to get us anywhere since you keep refusing to back up your statements with any kind of valuable sourceTalk to you when PCIe 3.0 is out hehehe

I don't think I'm being rude, I apologise if that's how I come acrossthat being said I'm pretty sure I already asked you to explain how MMF would work outside of VM I'm gonna call it a day. This is not going to get us anywhere since you keep refusing to back up your statements with any kind of valuable sourceTalk to you when PCIe 3.0 is out hehehe

I'm not refusing to back-up what I'm saying. Here is the source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory-mapped_fileEverything I've said so far fits with what's in that page. Cheers, - jahman.

do you realise that the single first sentence in that article completely destroys you argument? or can you quote a single line there and reason why it helps your position?

Anybody else's following this..... just kidding but you guys lost me at Bertha....

Anybody else's following this..... just kidding but you guys lost me at Bertha....

I am obviously following this thread Alain... and Bertha too! hoping she's hot

Woah. Got a full blown 1v1 going on here and I've never noticed.

Woah. Got a full blown 1v1 going on here and I've never noticed.

Bertha? is that you?

Hahha who's Bertha?

Wrong jahman. You'll get a hard page fault once a file mapped page that was dropped is requested again. That was exactly was I meant with all the file mapping view thing. Not only you will get a hard fault, it will happen precisely because there is no page file available to the virtual memory manager to page out something else that was more suitable to be paged outSo hard faults can happen without a page file, and more importantly, disabling the page file can induce hard page faults on itself

Why do you bother even try to justify it to Jahman. I gave up after I referenced Russinovich. Good enough source for any reasonable person. Let me recap; Mark Russinovich Phd. and senior member of Microsoft and David Solomon, operating Systems expert at Microsoft, the two together whom have nearly designed the Windows Operating system, say you get page faults in the absense of a pagefile. Jahman, aviation enthusiastat Avsim says you do not. Hmmmm who should I go with.....

Yes! MMF is not virtual memory, it is memory-mapped file access. Two different tasks, both carried out by a program called "VMM".

That's not how I understand it. Both Russinovich and the Wiki article you quoted state clearly that an MMF is a type of VM, and that makes sense as it's managed that way. The difference is that the MMF is not pagefile-backed, since the original file is used directly instead. But when a program using an MMF attempts to access an address located in a page not currently loaded in memory, a page fault does indeed occur, so it is possible to have a page fault in the absence of a dedicated page file. As to the original question, I do not place a pagefile onto my OS or FS SSDs, but instead manually establish the page file on an auxiliary HDD. Given 6GB of RAM to run a ~3GB app (FS) plus another 1 GB of system and related processes, the pagefile is rarely hit, but is available for a system dump or for a program that wants to see it there in case there might be a system dump.