RSR's already said in another thread that we're not happy with the current business model they're trying to push for addon devs.

If you guys aren't happy with the model, could we see something like a standalone from you? PMDG/ORBX/ASE/AOA/REX/AOA/RealAir/Carenado/?.I know it would never be able to happen from a business perspective, but it would be so awesome if you guys with all your knowledge and expertise came together and created the best Flight simulator ever

First of all you need a developer group that produces a well coded realistic visual simulation model of the planet (WGS-84, Laws of Physics, 3D terrain, atmosphere - including a new WX engine, topography, scenery urban structures etc).

Uh, yeah, Microsoft is doing that... they just include a few simple airplanes with it...

JD345 - the Microsoft Model sucks big time - it is badly coded and a huge mess on every level and because it is the very backbone of the Sim, every third party is having tremendous headaches and surely one of the reasons why a product like the NGX took so long to develop. That is the whole point of the discussion here. Many of us doubt, that Microsoft will make a better job of this in the future, because it is not part of their philosophy to create software for real pilots and those hobby simmers with higher expectations. Yes - Microsoft did sort of work because there was nothing else, but with too many drawbacks. Thanks to ******* and the guys, there was a lot of improvement on some levels, but not on others.

The thing is someone's still got to make the flight dynamics and graphics engine from scratch for the airplanes and scenery and everything to live in, which is no small task. It's a lot easier to write software than it is to write a whole new operating system.

same way they made FSX, only better. And it will totally be good for a desktop simulation

FSX for everybody here is a Flight simulation enviroment, NOT A GAME. As a game, MS can sell much more and keep simple and funny aircrafts. In my point of view FSX never could be a game because into a game always there are winners and losers e into FSX there is only winners. As Flight simulation enviroment the things are different and the market is limited to people that love the aviation world.This is the key to be considered to answer this kind of question.

OK when you have a flight simulator that only lets you flight the plane without a chance to tune a ILS freq or just a simple panel with no radios at all and also a small area to flight . now thats a simple game . but when the world its available to you and and you can tune some freqs in that radio and some more details with the basic AC we get with FSX or older FS series its not "ANOTHER GAME" must of the people that are not into FSX im sure when they went and got FSX just to try it they did not want to go into learning more of the sim at all and just return it or went and told a friend "thats too much to do" and when ever they played all they did its what you see in some stupid videos on youtube takeoff and crash into the ground just for the hell of it . my first sim was FS95 and later FS98 was what got me hook and at that time i took the steps to complete my flight training in real life till this day as a airline pilot . WE the flight simers around the world with the payware developers are what is keeping MS doing another series of FS . if back in 95 or 98 MS had a formula one software that had the avility to let other developers outside MS add more realistic experience to the game that one particular software would still be alive today because of that small group of people.If MS ever comes out with more realistic feel to the sim in general with CDUs and the like in every plane they pack in the sim it wont cost us 50$ anymore it will cost alot more and even at that point there will be plenty of people that wont be happy because its too much money or who knows what other excuse to not be happy with what we got.

Well - then you can stick with MS. But just accept that there are some of us, who would like a backbone that offers top notch quality and not a half finished mediocre product like FSX with all it's limitations - even if we have to pay 10 times the price.

Well - then you can stick with MS. But just accept that there are some of us, who would like a backbone that offers top notch quality and not a half finished mediocre product like FSX with all it's limitations - even if we have to pay 10 times the price.

FSX and some other things out there its what we have now so its not about sticking with it, and yes if anyone comes out with a more realistic way when it comes to PC simulation that covers every part of it and its 1000$ ill be buying it too .

To say the FSX engine "sucks big time" is to miss the point... I don't think you guys are understanding the scope of designing a new flight sim engine. It's not going to be the done the "same way they made FSX, only better" ... FSX is five years old and was an upgrade on a pretty old engine, and making a new engine (like Microsoft IS doing right now) is a different task entirely. If you guys think you're going to get fully modeled fluid dynamics in a desktop flight sim, you're going to be disappointed. We're flight simmers, not physicists with Cray supercomputers. This is a niche hobby and it's not big enough to support the kind of development that would give you a $1000 flight sim. That's just not viable. That's not to say that it's impossible for someone other than Microsoft to make a flight sim, but simply listing off all of the addon developers and saying, See, they could all make their parts of it... that's a little simplistic. They're all ABLE to make their addons because there's already an open enough platform on which they can develop what they wish... FSDT makes airports using the framework that's already there... they don't need to write up an airport database so FSX can understand where the airport is, how the runways and taxiways and gates are all configured and what they're called, how the graphics engine processes everything and sends off to the screen to be marveled at. They can put as much detail as they want into the layout, the textures, and the terminals, and essentially just plug it in. It's not to say they or others in the community aren't capable of writing up such an airport database, but that's just ONE fairly straightforward element out of many in the FSX engine. PMDG spent a very long time developing the NGX and in doing so circumvented some of the limitations of the FSX engine... but the purpose was specific, to make a 737 for FSX. It's not that the know-how isn't there to create a flight sim... I'm just not sure the flight sim enthusiast community is capable of creating a flight sim from scratch that would both meet our standards and be commercially viable at the same time.

I think if someone could make a flight sim for civilian and commercial aircraft with the flight dynamics and graphics of the DCS A-10C, it would be pretty awesome.

I have just been reading through all of this thread and i have some general comments. Firstly, MS abandonning MSFS, I am sure was not just because of the financial chrises back then. They want to distance themselves from the veeeeeery difficult ( and expensive to please) simming community and start afresh with something that is labeled as simmulation but in essence is a game, because this is where the money is. Think back 10 years and all the simmulations made by enthusiastic individuals and small companies... they are all gone and replaced with an endless line of games both for PC and consols. Flight, in my oppinion will be a game with high qualithy graphics, a fluid appealing ( to the public at large) flightmodel, and most importantly MS controlling the addons. Flight addons can only be purchased from MS Flight apps store. ( they have learned from Apple).3rd party developers can create new products but they can only be sold through MS (who makes a profit ofcause on this). Now to Microsoft Flight Simulator; FSX in its latest incarnation. When MSFS was stopped I compleately dropped out of the hobby also because i was so angry with MS for terminating this unique franchise, as far as I know the longest running PC program series ever. I have come back within the last couple of months and I am amazed at what i have found. Because there have not been a new version (FS11?!) it seems like developers, hardware, simming comunity had the time to keep up with FSX and turn it into something wonderfull. Orbx scenary, REX cloud and water, PMDG planes, Realair planes, VRS superbug just to name a few are transforming flightsimmulator in so many ways. Had there been another FS11 just around the corner or allready here then the focus would have been on if the PMDG 737 would function in FS11 together with all the other addons we have just invested in. FSX might not be the perfect sim, but as someone wrote it is here and it is what ties the whole simming comunity together. Alternatives, forget that, just look at Xplane that have not had a great following despite all its qualities. In my oppinion FS11 or FS12 is allready here (Orbx+REX+new planes as above) and the good news is that this can mature further as no new version is being forced upon us. This is just my 2 cents worth....... Lars

What everyone has to understand is that FSX is how it is (i.e. the most complete civil aviation simulator you can get for a PC) because it had been developed over decades, thus the work and the expense of creating all the stuff which combines to make that level of completeness has also been spread over those decades. So to all those saying 'FS is crappy, or old, or badly coded etc', you need to understand that much of this is simply because it is the only way an affordable sim with all of those features could actually exist. FS is a juggernaut, it has been rolling for twenty-five years, it was going before MS Windows even existed and wasn't even an MS product for its first few incarnations. If you wanted to create something of that nature completely from scratch, it would be a monumental task, as Aerosoft have found out. This is why MS Flight is almost certainly going to be based on FS to at least some degree rather than being a completely clean slate, that is, if it isn't cancelled, as the rumour flying around suggests, although there are some new screenies out. Al