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Real World NGX Pilots how on earth do you remember all this

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What Flexman says about ending up in Africa flying dodgy aircraft is so true, I know many people in the same situation. And even those flying shiny new jets out in the sandpit or far east have a really tough time and are overworked beyond belief. One thing loading up the NGX at your leisure, a completely diiferent story flying the real thing late at night with tech issues, dog tired and one screw up means best case scenario you get a grilling from management, worst case you are out of a job or not going home to see your family. Best advice my old man gave me, earn enough money to fly your own aircraft.

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This is a very honest and realistic recommendation to the younger simmers. Go and become pilots BUT:. If you have the slightest doubt that you will not be able to go on and on for years seeing your school mates get successful at other more boring jobs, and that you might not have enough money to pay and pay and then pay for more training as the market dictates (and it will)... study something else too, and take pilot training easy. Don't waste your life on a career that has nothing to do with what it was in the 90s (80s).
It's a real shame just how much our industry has deteriorated since I began back in the mid 80's. The past 8-10 years have been particularly grim, with make young and skilled people being turned away from our industry. Things are changing though, for those who don't know, EIN, BA, KLM, Lufthansa, Flybe, WX, Cathay Pacific, Ethihad and Emirates are all now running their own form of pilot sponsorship. It's not what it was back when I was taken on, but it's a hell of an improvement over the last few years of having to pay to work the line... My advice to anyone coming to this industry, is to get a degree, then apply for a sponsorship and accept nothing less, write to airlines not running sponsorships and request one. You have to come across as being worth the investment to the airline, but if it means a garanteed place at the end of your training, you'll be a foot up on everyone else. Our profession may have as much glamour as it did in the 60's and 70's, but if you love flying then you wouldn't change it for the world. Just be realistic about it.... Rónán.

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I would never be turned away from it, just love flying. I was thinking if I could just get all the endorsements, ppl, cpl, multi engine endorsement, IFR, retractable gear etc could I then apply write to an airline. If I pass year 12 and everything and have all the necessary licences, how could they say no.

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I would never be turned away from it, just love flying. I was thinking if I could just get all the endorsements, ppl, cpl, multi engine endorsement, IFR, retractable gear etc could I then apply write to an airline. If I pass year 12 and everything and have all the necessary licences, how could they say no.
Very easily unfortunately, sorry to burst your bubblemellow.png ....

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Yes I thought so. It is different in Australia but I will see when I am older what I should be doing. I plan to start flying lessons about this time next year.

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The best thing about the UK is the number of airlines based here. Same with the US. Whereas in Australia you're limited to Qantas, V Blue and V Aus and the mining airlines

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I would never be turned away from it, just love flying. I was thinking if I could just get all the endorsements, ppl, cpl, multi engine endorsement, IFR, retractable gear etc could I then apply write to an airline. If I pass year 12 and everything and have all the necessary licences, how could they say no.
I don't know of any airline today with such low entry requisites. Some places in Africa are still like that. South America used to have oportunities for low experience pilots, but that also changed recently. I lived with an Italian guy who had the the same experience you mentioned there. He got VERY lucky because he got a job flying a Caravan in Malaysia. He's been there for almost 5 years with his PT6 tine not being accounted for as jet time (pax amount defines wether the caravan is multipilot or not). So, he's 36 now and all he has is a CPL-IR plus a gazillion windmill hours. Instant rejection.
The best thing about the UK is the number of airlines based here. Same with the US. Whereas in Australia you're limited to Qantas, V Blue and V Aus and the mining airlines
I'm pretty sure that chances for becoming a airline pilot are higher for an Aussie than for anybody in Europe. They are lucky because they have a very protective pilot market. That is something we are lacking here in Europe.

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With training I mean get accepted by the airline and then they train you with all the stuff you need to know to fly their aircraft. You get all the general knowledge you can about flying then go to the airline.

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I'm pretty sure that chances for becoming a airline pilot are higher for an Aussie than for anybody in Europe. They are lucky because they have a very protective pilot market. That is something we are lacking here in Europe.
Qantas have a pilot training scheme. Like a cadet programme. It costs a fortune to go to and you need to have the highest grades possible in school. They very rarely take pilots from their own programme. They only take someone if they really stand out from the crowd. So the limited number of people that get in can waste all that money and time and Qantas will turn around and say no

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With training I mean get accepted by the airline and then they train you with all the stuff you need to know to fly their aircraft. You get all the general knowledge you can about flying then go to the airline.
Hey you should start training along with your studies , but don't ignore your studies.

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Gotta balance, FS, studies, flying studies, flying.

Qantas have a pilot training scheme. Like a cadet programme. It costs a fortune to go to and you need to have the highest grades possible in school. They very rarely take pilots from their own programme. They only take someone if they really stand out from the crowd. So the limited number of people that get in can waste all that money and time and Qantas will turn around and say no
I am waiting for VA to start a cadetship. Some will guarantee you a job but that would be with someone like REX. Who wants to be with Qantas now, pay is much lower than VA.

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Some who do the training are not too good at even basic maths LIKE ME Big%20Grin.gif , if you ask me to calculate a deviation I will start wondering now how on earth would I do that, but I will give you the answer after a couple of minutes. So the SA and the quickness matters a lot.
Ha ha. I remember doing some RAF test papers from Cranwell. I could get the right answer after 20 minutes or so. Only thing was I had to do it in 2 minutes. Which meant that we'd have flown into a mountain or run out of fuel with me still chewing my pencil in the back seat... That's why my degree is a BA and not a BSc. Ian

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There is logic and flow to all the procedures. That helps people memorise. That plus many hours of ground school training and then constant repetition every flight. If it was a collection of random actions it would be very difficult to remember. Kevin Hall
This, this exactly how I've mastered my 747. It's been almost 2 years since I've been flying the queen, I've logged about a thousand hours in it. At first It was a checklist activity, but now I don't even use the lists anymore, everything is in there... (Of course, after a fairly long LOA I make a few check flights then it's back up to speed.)

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Best advice my old man gave me, earn enough money to fly your own aircraft.
What type of aircraft do you have in mind? I know very few people flying anything of reasonable sophistication (twin turbine, pressurized cabin, advanced avionics) on their own money.For most of us, it's sticking to the old 1970 era Cessna or Piper at the local flying club, and we're still the lucky ones considering unemployment rates and overall economic situation, especially here in Europe where the cost of private flying is twice as high as in the US or elsewhere. Getting your hands on something like a King Air or Cessna Citation is nearly impossible without being a commercial pilot if you're not born a millionaire.

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Well there is an old adage in aviation... You have to spend 100 dollars to make 1; wisdom from my ex-instructor. Yes, I never made it to ATPL... Got my CPL with IR/Multi and turboprop but making the jump to the required 1500 hours the airlines all seem to want is one costly endeavor. It is a shame though that so many pilots are on the DOL. Luckily I managed to build my flying time through a flying club and took all required licensing exams individually. When I read about some of these schools who offer complete Ab-Initio packages, it makes me cringe... I too though have fallen through the net and am now doing something completely different (maritime deck officer and engineer) since the art of navigation has always been my passion.... Back in the 40's and 50's there would have been jobs for me but unfortunately navigation and engineering are also not quite the art they used to be. I have seen 21 year old girls flying right hand seat on CRJ's though, so it's still possible.

I don't know of any airline today with such low entry requisites. Some places in Africa are still like that. South America used to have oportunities for low experience pilots, but that also changed recently. I lived with an Italian guy who had the the same experience you mentioned there. He got VERY lucky because he got a job flying a Caravan in Malaysia. He's been there for almost 5 years with his PT6 tine not being accounted for as jet time (pax amount defines wether the caravan is multipilot or not). So, he's 36 now and all he has is a CPL-IR plus a gazillion windmill hours. Instant rejection. I'm pretty sure that chances for becoming a airline pilot are higher for an Aussie than for anybody in Europe. They are lucky because they have a very protective pilot market. That is something we are lacking here in Europe.
It does seem to me that the European market is a thousand times more protected than most other places I have flown. In fact I have never flown in Europe simply because there seem to be too many regulations concerning licensing requirements. I've worked for many grandpa and grandma bush operations in Canada, Brazil and and South Africa who pretty much payed me cash under the table but when coming to Europe to see if there were any opportunities, it seemed impossible. In fact, it was impossible. In North America there still are chances to build up flying hours through private aviation and wonderful VFR flying, same for Australia... but Europe, private flying and VFR seem limited. Everything seems overestimated in Europe from what I have experienced, especially by the aviation insurance companies. Well, then again, I'me only speaking for the French , Belgian and German market, I don't know what its like for rest of Europe. MJ O'Donnell

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Ha ha. I remember doing some RAF test papers from Cranwell. I could get the right answer after 20 minutes or so. Only thing was I had to do it in 2 minutes. Which meant that we'd have flown into a mountain or run out of fuel with me still chewing my pencil in the back seat... That's why my degree is a BA and not a BSc. Ian
Maths bad bad bad, but I have come to a point where understand at least can crack it in a minute than 2.

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You really think so? I'm not a pilot but my imagination tells me that up to 8 rotations a day, flying in and out of airports I've flown in and out of countless times before, with the stress of meeting tight schedules and trying to get enough sleep could lose it's attraction after a while. Iain Smith
Yes, any job done properly is about hard work and dedication. If you do something you love (which I imagine most pilots do!) then so much the better. I'm not doubting that it isn't stressful though.

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I don't know of any airline today with such low entry requisites. Some places in Africa are still like that. South America used to have oportunities for low experience pilots, but that also changed recently. I lived with an Italian guy who had the the same experience you mentioned there. He got VERY lucky because he got a job flying a Caravan in Malaysia. He's been there for almost 5 years with his PT6 tine not being accounted for as jet time (pax amount defines wether the caravan is multipilot or not). So, he's 36 now and all he has is a CPL-IR plus a gazillion windmill hours. Instant rejection. I'm pretty sure that chances for becoming a airline pilot are higher for an Aussie than for anybody in Europe. They are lucky because they have a very protective pilot market. That is something we are lacking here in Europe.
Very easily unfortunately, sorry to burst your bubblemellow.png ....
It's a real shame just how much our industry has deteriorated since I began back in the mid 80's. The past 8-10 years have been particularly grim, with make young and skilled people being turned away from our industry. Things are changing though, for those who don't know, EIN, BA, KLM, Lufthansa, Flybe, WX, Cathay Pacific, Ethihad and Emirates are all now running their own form of pilot sponsorship. It's not what it was back when I was taken on, but it's a hell of an improvement over the last few years of having to pay to work the line... My advice to anyone coming to this industry, is to get a degree, then apply for a sponsorship and accept nothing less, write to airlines not running sponsorships and request one. You have to come across as being worth the investment to the airline, but if it means a garanteed place at the end of your training, you'll be a foot up on everyone else. Our profession may have as much glamour as it did in the 60's and 70's, but if you love flying then you wouldn't change it for the world. Just be realistic about it.... Rónán.
'Could you guys with the real world experience shed some light on the terms "Short Turn" and "Long Turn" with your experience and operators. These are 'Saved Panel States' with absolutely zero explanation in the Intro and Use pdf. We can guess all day long, but it would be nice if we had a little info about how and when they are used and how they may relate to our simulator flying. It sure is nice of you guys to take the time to talk about these things in the forum. The developer must have their hands full with the support requests and evidently don't have time to spoon feed the newbies. I guess some of the customers are still trying to get in the air or stay up without CTDs. Ray

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Short turn is for a quick turnover at the airport. Ie, not many systems are switched off, only the minimum is turned off. Long turn is a long turnover, so more equipment is turned off, with only the minimum being left on. Try them both out and see the differences

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'Could you guys with the real world experience shed some light on the terms "Short Turn" and "Long Turn" with your experience and operators. These are 'Saved Panel States' with absolutely zero explanation in the Intro and Use pdf. We can guess all day long, but it would be nice if we had a little info about how and when they are used and how they may relate to our simulator flying. It sure is nice of you guys to take to time to talk about these things in the forum. The developer has their hands full with the support requests and evidently don't have time to spoon feed the newbies. I guess some of the customers are still trying to get in the air or stay up with CTDs. Ray
Relating to my bush flying experience.... A short turn is a short turnaround time where you pretty much land, unload, re-load or refuel if necessary and take off again (so you keep all systems warm)... A long turn is the opposite, a long turnaround time where you go cold and dark... batteries off etc since you have the time to let things cool down. Relating to sim flying, a short turnaround has all the systems in a state in which it was previously left and can accumulate errors (such as the need to quick realign the IRS/INS system.) The long turn around would necessitate using the checklists from cold and dark and resetting all systems. MJ O'Donnell

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Short turn is for a quick turnover at the airport. Ie, not many systems are switched off, only the minimum is turned off. Long turn is a long turnover, so more equipment is turned off, with only the minimum being left on. Try them both out and see the differences
Thanks, that was my guess based on the terms. What I was hoping for was what or what not is turned off or on and why. And how long in time is a typical Short Turn or Long Turn and when does the Short become the Long. And maybe even some discussion on which checklist is used or at what point in a specific checklist do you start or stop. That kinda stuff. Ray

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Thanks, that was my guess based on the terms. What I was hoping for was what or what not is turned off or on and why. And how long in time is a typical Short Turn or Long Turn and when does the Short become the Long. And maybe even some discussion on which checklist is used or at what point the what checklist do you start or stop. That kinda stuff. Ray
Ahhh. Sorry I'm not sure about that depth.

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Relating to my bush flying experience.... A short turn is a short turnaround time where you pretty much land, unload, re-load or refuel if necessary and take off again (so you keep all systems warm)... A long turn is the opposite, a long turnaround time where you go cold and dark... batteries off etc since you have the time to let things cool down. Relating to sim flying, a short turnaround has all the systems in a state in which it was previously left and can accumulate errors (such as the need to quick realign the IRS/INS system.) The long turn around would necessitate using the checklists from cold and dark and resetting all systems. MJ O'Donnell
Excellent response for me. Thanks. I wonder why we have the Long Turn and the Cold and Dark if they are the same? Ray

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This, this exactly how I've mastered my 747. It's been almost 2 years since I've been flying the queen, I've logged about a thousand hours in it. At first It was a checklist activity, but now I don't even use the lists anymore, everything is in there... (Of course, after a fairly long LOA I make a few check flights then it's back up to speed.)
And that's how one of my collegues managed to land a job flying TU-204's for a Russian airline. Funny story actually, the guy didn't speak a word of Russian and had fierce hatred for the Metric system but somehow still managed to get a job flying a Russian heavy. His secret, repetition of all SOP's and checklists, lots of dictionaries and sleeping with the boss.... :D MJ O'Donnell

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