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suchw

Do RW pilots enter the star at departure or on at TOD

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Hi All Curious about if RW 737 NG pilots enter the approximate star when programming before departure or leave it blanK until TOD, I had an issue changing star at TOD as it screwed up my waypoints confirming you just select the new LSK at the start of the new star and LSK to the start of the old star to replace.


Wayne such

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Often the arrival data is known during crew preflight briefing. In any FMS equipped aircraft, the pilot can fill the arrival data during pre-start preparation, especially for short flights where weather changes are small and therefore arrival assumptions have higher probability. If and when changed, it only takes a few seconds to update.


Regards, Opher Ben Peretz

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Often the arrival data is known during crew preflight briefing. In any FMS equipped aircraft, the pilot can fill the arrival data during pre-start preparation, especially for short flights where weather changes are small and therefore arrival assumptions have higher probability. If and when changed, it only takes a few seconds to update.
Oh? interesting. I always heard that they enter it just before decent. But then again, relative to the 73NG, we are talking about pretty short flights so that sounds about right.

Kind Regards,

Dan Wela

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thanks a lot guys what is the process to delete old star and add new star in


Wayne such

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Oh? interesting. I always heard that they enter it just before decent. But then again, relative to the 73NG, we are talking about pretty short flights so that sounds about right.
B737-800 can cruise around 5 hours.Also entered before start-up for 11 hour flights.

Regards, Opher Ben Peretz

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As opherben said, alot of pilots usually fly the same routes with a given airline, so they become very familiar with what STAR to expect at their destination. However, in watching my Westjet 737-600 DVD from Just Planes (shamless plug), The pilots, on a flight from Vancouver to Calgary, only entered the route at their departure airport, and after last waypoint, they set direct to Calgary, but around the pre descent checklist, they did an arrival briefing where they then plugged in the STAR to the FMC and corrected any discontinuities. This is only an example from one crew from one airline. I'm willing to guess that this may be different from crew to crew or airline to airline.

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Aren't STARS more related with wich direction you're flying from? I would assume that IRL, they would pre-flight the STAR and leave the transition and approach up to APP control, who would give them the info to put on the FMC. There's a Gol pilot here who can confirm, but I think that's how it works in Brazil.


Isaac Magalhaes

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It would seem to me that they put in a STAR, yes. Arrival runway? Not so much, especially on longer flights... that's what irks me... I can never input the correct transition beforehand, since winds change often enroute.


Frank Grivel

Intel i5-2500K CPU, 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM (9-9-9-23), 1TB HDD, Nvidia 560Ti GTX, 700W PSU

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Aren't STARS more related with wich direction you're flying from? I would assume that IRL, they would pre-flight the STAR and leave the transition and approach up to APP control, who would give them the info to put on the FMC. There's a Gol pilot here who can confirm, but I think that's how it works in Brazil.
Some STARs are for a specific runway direction.For example LEPA has a STAR for runways 24 L/R and a different one for runways 06 L/R.Dan.

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Some STARs are for a specific runway direction.For example LEPA has a STAR for runways 24 L/R and a different one for runways 06 L/R. Dan.
That's the International vs. North American way of doing things, I think. With a few exceptions, EU countries, Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, India, etc. all use runway-specific STARs. In which case I have no idea how they do it.

Frank Grivel

Intel i5-2500K CPU, 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM (9-9-9-23), 1TB HDD, Nvidia 560Ti GTX, 700W PSU

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Well, I almost never fly online. I use RW weather, though, so what I do is use TAF and stick to those, because they're mostly correct, most of the time.


Isaac Magalhaes

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Aren't STARS more related with wich direction you're flying from? I would assume that IRL, they would pre-flight the STAR and leave the transition and approach up to APP control, who would give them the info to put on the FMC. There's a Gol pilot here who can confirm, but I think that's how it works in Brazil.
A route ends at a transition point, and is selected so that a STAR is available for the expected landing runway. This means that the transition is firm, and the STAR is usually known in advance but may change, due to unexpected weather or traffic conditions.Some airports have well-designed STARS accessible from most transition points, and relevant for the main runways.A sample such well designed airport is London Heathrow, where 4 VORS located at 4 airport corners serve as transition points, from which traffic is directed to final approach.

Regards, Opher Ben Peretz

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I always program what I am filed or cleared for. If my filed flight plan route includes a STAR, I will program it while at the gate going through the FMC. That is my personal technique, that is not dictated by SOP where I work. I have seen some people get caught out by programming something which they were not cleared or filed for. Usually it is just the other crew member saying "where are you taking us?" or even worse, ATC asking you where you are going. It normally does not get far enough to become anything more than an embarrassing moment, but depending on the airport you could have to copy down a telephone number when you land. If I am pretty comfortable with the route and I know for sure what I can expect I will program it ahead of time, but usually in the cruise. In this case, to prevent the above, I will either leave / insert a route discontinuity after my cleared point, or at least line select that waypoint into the fix page to highlight it on the ND. This reminds me that I need to make sure I can fly what I programmed. Keep in mind that if you leave a discon in your route you will have to program an altitude at that last waypoint in order to get an accurate VNAV PATH for descent planning purposes. Or you could do it the old school way and work it out in your head. Anyway, I guess it can't do any harm in the sim since no-one's lives / licenses are at risk.


Mariano Bonaccorso
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Like said above it's a guess based on your arrival direction. You can pre-load it or wait for the controller to give it to you. If you are familiar with the airport, you more likely know what to expect. Either way it's easy to reload. I usually add the star before departure just for timing. That way the airshow displays a more accurate arrival time. There have been plenty of times that we have had to load a different star but it's only a few key strokes. Usually you can tell which star will be given by hearing what the other guys ahead of you are given.

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What percentage of time do RW pilots get to actually follow that star? It seems to me from the various videos and training materials etc, that atc invariably ends up issueing altitude changes and vectors to the loc intercept point.


Rick Hobbs

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