Flight project cancelled/on hold

[Glynn 405]

HelloI am also curious why if there is no money to be made and simmers are so thin on the ground why it is that a company like Saitek produces and sells so many flightsim related products, they now have three sets of rudder pedals , two yokes , throttles, trim unit and various radio/AP units and a Cessna endorsement.CH has been happy to supply this "tiny" market for many years along with Goflight, PFC ect. Yet we are so few that we supposedly do not matter and apparently no company certainly not MS sees us as a target market. This market and the total number of simmers is far larger than many give it credit for.Especially as anyone remotely interested in trying flightsimulation only has to type "flight simulation" into google to discover the community that exists around the hobby.We are not hidden away as in the past now that everyone has a connected device and knows how to type a query into Google. If the market was only 100,000 Saitek would never get the return on investment necessary to develop and market such a large range .

[Tierborn 188]

HelloI am also curious why if there is no money to be made and simmers are so thin on the ground why it is that a company like Saitek produces and sells so many flightsim related products, they now have three sets of rudder pedals , two yokes , throttles, trim unit and various radio/AP units and a Cessna endorsement.CH has been happy to supply this "tiny" market for many years along with Goflight, PFC ect. Yet we are so few that we supposedly do not matter and apparently no company certainly not MS sees us as a target market. This market and the total number of simmers is far larger than many give it credit for.Especially as anyone remotely interested in trying flightsimulation only has to type "flight simulation" into google to discover the community that exists around the hobby.We are not hidden away as in the past now that everyone has a connected device and knows how to type a query into Google. If the market was only 100,000 Saitek would never get the return on investment necessary to develop and market such a large range .

A couple of thoughs.. There is money to be made ... remember that saitek products can also be used for combat flight simmers (stuff blowing up). That market is larger that the civil flight sim market by many factors. Also, in the past MSFS got it largest number of sales from the casual gamer. The guy that likes planes but has only logged a couple of hrs on MSFS before getting bored and feeling like it might be more complicated that he/she thought. The purchase by the wife/mother that thinks her husband/son might interested (Christmas gift). My father and brother-in-law both have a copy but only collectively have about 2 hrs of flight time on the sim. For flight (2Q2011) MSFS is going for a trying a different approach ... build a sim that keeps both the causal and the hard core simmers interested and invovled the title for years to come. Translation . more sales

[dmaher 0]

There are some users asking for a practical, user-friendly, leading-edge, professional and academic grade simulator - for a desktop price. And why not? – Who here wouldn’t want that? That’s obviously not the FS target market. But it’s also not a real segment of any market.An aviation fan with realistic expectations of a desktop simulator is the target market. If you use and enjoy the features included in FS; you’re part of the target market. And one of those features is its extensibility. If FS only lacks the features you need – you’re clearly not in the market. FS has no features that appeal to Gamers. Even FSX missions’ introduce aviation fans to basic gaming concepts. They are not effective the other way around. IMO they aren’t even of remote interest to Gamers.Lol, we’ve only debated this a thousand times ;) I think we’re all pretty deeply entrenched. I don’t think anyone will be swayed one way or the other. ..Seems fine to me.

[alainneedle1 97]

We are the purist simmers here, we like to fly from one airport to another one with a flight plan, payload, fuel, +++, MS already have us in their back pocket so to speak, so what can MS do to attract the regular gamers like the one buying Rise of Flight....about mission where you can shoot other planes down, we already have the F/A 18, about the AgustaWestland EH101 to droop troops somewhere in hostile territory....(I know default plane but what are add-ons for) That kind of stuff will attract peoples who are playing war games and other games like that to take a look at Flight if shooting and explosion happen.... Mission can also be like other games with stage 1 to stage 5 before you are done....just saying...

[dmaher 0]

IMO pure air combat is still outside of the spectrum of big number mainstream games.I think we'd have to go as far as BattleField type features break into the mainstream.And that's where the competition will crush us like a bug ;)…after we've spent the bank and alienated our core fans. Adding FS missions and combat are still things we aviation fans appreciate too.There is a giant risk here though, "feature creep".It makes the project vulnerable…A game needs to have focus and do a few things well.As the scope widens every feature suffers…every feature gets less and less attention.I suspect combat may be one bridge too far.But they can remove any barriers to it...so it becomes a more common add-on. Whatever the game, they all still need to appeal to the beginners in their audience.So expect to see the same tutorials and "it's that easy!" type skill ramping.That's normal for all games.

[ManuelL 0]

Maybe going a bit off topic here - but in my opinion the missions (also in FSX) could be a really cool learning tool. They are only rarely used to their potential. For example if someone released a pack of 10-15 missions that teach to fly a complex aircraft like the PMDG 737 with an interactive, talking instructor instead of having to read hundreds of manual pages that might actually be a seller (considering that missions might be cheaper to create than the aircraft itself and therefore don't require the same amount of sales). I would think that at least 70% of the people (including myself) who buy a complex aircraft addon are never able to use it to full potential reading the manual alone.

[dmaher 0]

+1

[Glynn 405]

A couple of thoughs.. There is money to be made ... remember that saitek products can also be used for combat flight simmers (stuff blowing up). That market is larger that the civil flight sim market by many factors. Also, in the past MSFS got it largest number of sales from the casual gamer. The guy that likes planes but has only logged a couple of hrs on MSFS before getting bored and feeling like it might be more complicated that he/she thought. The purchase by the wife/mother that thinks her husband/son might interested (Christmas gift). My father and brother-in-law both have a copy but only collectively have about 2 hrs of flight time on the sim. For flight (2Q2011) MSFS is going for a trying a different approach ... build a sim that keeps both the causal and the hard core simmers interested and invovled the title for years to come. Translation . more sales

HelloCombat simmers are not buying all these yokes and pedals they are buying joysticks.So who is buying all these yokes peddles and throttles ect from saitek http://www.saitek.com/cessna/Not casual gamers at those prices.

[shivers9 1,174]

Maybe going a bit off topic here - but in my opinion the missions (also in FSX) could be a really cool learning tool. They are only rarely used to their potential. For example if someone released a pack of 10-15 missions that teach to fly a complex aircraft like the PMDG 737 with an interactive, talking instructor instead of having to read hundreds of manual pages that might actually be a seller (considering that missions might be cheaper to create than the aircraft itself and therefore don't require the same amount of sales). I would think that at least 70% of the people (including myself) who buy a complex aircraft addon are never able to use it to full potential reading the manual alone.

Sir...that is one of the most positive and constructive post that I have seen in years here and you are 100 percent correct! The same can be said for many areas of flight sim. There is a guy out there who did some Tuts on using Ezdok and they were great. Not only would they make a few bucks but would go a long way in converting "gamers" into "flight enthusiasts" . That is a win win for everyone.

[Tierborn 188]

HelloCombat simmers are not buying all these yokes and pedals they are buying joysticks.So who is buying all these yokes peddles and throttles ect from saitek http://www.saitek.com/cessna/Not casual gamers at those prices.

For the most part, the enthusiasts buy the yokes .... however, the larger portion of Saitek earnings comes from its joysticks and combat throttles. If yokes were as hot of an item, you would find them readily at any electronics store, just like you see the joysticks at any electronics store.

[Glynn 405]

For the most part, the enthusiasts buy the yokes .... however, the larger portion of Saitek earnings comes from its joysticks and combat throttles. If yokes were as hot of an item, you would find them readily at any electronics store, just like you see the joysticks at any electronics store.

HelloBut how many still buy at brick and mortar stores in this internet age, folk go onto google and find the best prices.Here is one of microsofts target market enjoying his new hardware controlshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oLbjXNOGDo

[shivers9 1,174]

OK let's try this from a different direction. In this exchange as well as in many other forums the same reply comes from many folks with a lot of years in this hobby. That is FSX in a small market not worth serving. That holds true for FS9 and back as far as I can remember. I have no knowledge or experience to the contrary. So if we accept this as the truth then that should mean that FSX and all that came before it are complete and utter flops. No interest or customers and not enough sales. It just begs 2 questions. First: After 10 failed attempts over some 25 or so years, why would a major company worth billions be developing the new Flight. Second: If we all believe it is such a failure then why are we all still coming back here day after day for nothing but another failed attempt? We should all be joining the Ford Falcon users club!!

[dmaher 0]

I agree...I have to imagine FS earns tens of millions each version. Otherwise they would have stopped :) I also imagine that sales are very stable and predicated over the years. In contrast designing a new mainstream game is very-very risky. You can't just add rockets and explosions. And big developers aren’t even very good at it. They’re far more likely to buy out a new game company that’s earned some success.

[JSkorna 137]

Can you point to any one of these posts? Who has ever said FS was a flop? The point remains that the dedicated simmer is not the MS target market.

[Chock 17,769]

Maybe going a bit off topic here - but in my opinion the missions (also in FSX) could be a really cool learning tool. They are only rarely used to their potential. For example if someone released a pack of 10-15 missions that teach to fly a complex aircraft like the PMDG 737 with an interactive, talking instructor instead of having to read hundreds of manual pages that might actually be a seller (considering that missions might be cheaper to create than the aircraft itself and therefore don't require the same amount of sales). I would think that at least 70% of the people (including myself) who buy a complex aircraft addon are never able to use it to full potential reading the manual alone.

That has actually already been done, and it works well too if done right. Check out Wilco's Aviation and Mission for the PIC 737-3/4/500. This software was reviewed by me for Avsim some time ago, and the review gives you a good idea of how it goes about doing the training parts, which it then moves on from to give you some more adventurous stuff. Apparently Wilco had planned to do more of them, for their Airbus amongst other things, but whether that will materialise is another matter; I would like to think so because it is something which has truly massive potential. Al