Flare and Idle thrust

[MrKen 3]

"Flying" the aircraft to the ground with a bit of thrust do result in typically smooth landings....but you will have all the excess energy to get rid of which isn't always 'convenient'. Although I won't lie it was something I was guilty of it back in glider days...hahahaa

Well in your defense, insufficient energy is a little more critical in a glider than something with engines

[martin-w 3,234]

Wow I found even real world pilot pushes yoke while flare in the movies Wilby linked.Now I know 50ft is a normal height many people and autopilot start flare.. ok I'll practice with this.. And I love pprune! most satisfying answers by googling ends at there. Thank you Nirattisal. Still, the height to set idle thrust is the most subtle part to master!

Actually I think 50 is too high. The manuals we we were provided with by PMDG say 20 feet for simultaneous throttle back and flare, with the thrust levers reaching idle, ideally upon touchdown. However, as i say, I prefer 30 feet, and the videos seem to confirm that this is a technique adopted in the real world. Obviously each landing is different, if you are coming in too hot, you may decide to reduce thrust to idle earlier. Martin Wilby

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

I usually throttle back at about 50-40ft, and then flare at 20-10. By the time i flare, speed drops about 5kts or so, and the plane settles nicely (that is, of course, if i don't pull back too much on the stick, as i am prone to do sometimes). I usually aim for 100-200fpm touchdown rate.

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

Let's not go down that route, okay? The moderators have closed one thread on the subject. If you have a problem with 1 degree of pitch, delete the instalation. And like Flaming_Squirrel (who, BTW, doesn't sign his posts as per the forum rules) stated above, it's your loss. Now, back to flaring techniques.

[namida 0]

Yes I know there's another post about attitude of flare and I agree NGX seems little bit low angle than RW video. BUT I don't care it's right or wrong.. at least this post is NOT for it.. We all have flew so many routes with default jets and many other eye candy aircrafts..The good thing is we can learn through their passion, professional, the bad thing is few people wants 100% of realy thing.. (I'm not saying they're wrong!)Despite PMDG advertised it for the most big part of NGX, we have to keep in mind the limitations of simulation genre.. Of course, the more reality the better. So.. yes. Today I landed more than 8 times but all the landings made long long gentle wave! XD (Runway) __~~~~>_____________________

[Guest]

The only way to say if 737 NGX landing system is good or far from reality is to let real 737 pilots chime in and let us know. IMO, even if I flown her few times only , it seems to me the the fragility is too high, I mean , just land not in smoothest way and the plane crash. I have to say that I perform manual landings only.

[RogerD 1]

I AGREE If you touch just a little harder then a butterfly this thing will crash.To sensitive to touchdown. Roger Deloge

[royski 0]

The NGX model is realistically modeled that the landing flare part is one of the hardest that I have encountered, yet. Flare too early then the plane will "float" over the runway. Flare too late then the plane will hit the runway "hard." I agree on what they say that you can barely notice the flare on the 737NGX. Once you put power to idle, if you maintain your current attitude, the plane would flare itself. Considering the PMDG NGX to be an "arcade game" is not a good idea...

[Guest]

I dunno, I am not a real pilot but, if the reality was like NGX I expect a crash 25% of the times a 737 lands and another 25% of the times I expect a float over the runways. The remaining 50% would be good landings instead.

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

I dunno, I am not a real pilot but, if the reality was like NGX I expect a crash 25% of the times a 737 lands and another 25% of the times I expect a float over the runways. The remaining 50% would be good landings instead.

The reality is like the NGX, but 737s aren't being constantly crashed because *gasp* it takes lots of training before anyone ever gets to fly one. Anyone expecting it to be easy, especially without training, is kidding themselves.

[Azapata87 173]

Whatever technique you end up using with the PMDG sim for consistant landing results, it's going to be one that's ultimately unique to the simulation and not RW procedure. PMDG screwed up this part of the flight dynamics, and if until they are actually able to consult with an actual B737 pilot who is also familiar with the myriad quirks and limitations of FSX itself (i.e. someone who actually has used FSX itself extensively), get used to it. PMDG claims they have no less than 10 real 737 pilots who beta tested the NGX for six months, yet I found the landing attitude/float issues within thirty minutes of flying the NGX for the first time. The real-world veteran jet pilots who frequent this forum pointed this obvious flaw to PMDG early on after release. I would surmise that PMDG's group of 737 test pilots had little of no previous experience with FSX, and therefore disregarded the obvious issues with landing as a limitation of Flight Simulator itself. If the NGX can't even be flown in accordance with the Boeing FCOM manuals supplied with it, the entire sim is useless. I've erased it from my hard drive and have never regretted doing so. Maybe PMDG will fix it in the future, but I think I've waited long enough for these clowns to get their act together. The development team needs a lot less time and a lot more kicks to the behind in the future.

You are out of line. If you spent half the time you spend complaining practicing your landings you would be fine.

[martin-w 3,234]

I dunno, I am not a real pilot but, if the reality was like NGX I expect a crash 25% of the times a 737 lands and another 25% of the times I expect a float over the runways. The remaining 50% would be good landings instead.

With respect, thats nonsense. The landings aren't hard unless you try anf flare too much. Use the HUD if you have trouble, you cant fail with the HUD, because you can judge the flair much easier, and the flightpath vector tells you precisely where the aircraft is heading, up, or down, left or right. I suspect the people claiming the landing phase is difficult, are those with minimal flight sim or real world experience. Martin Wilby

[scandinavian13 5,192]

For what it's worth, the crash engine of the sim is incredibly weak. It's best to turn it off as it is completely unrealistic. Beyond that, I really don't understand when people come in here going on about "this angle is off" or "that is wrong" or "I can't fly it by the manuals." For the first two, based off of what experience that you have?For the last, my sim is just fine. What's your problem? Get over yourself. This is one of the best add-ons the community has seen. To those quoting people who have actual time in a 737 that have difficulty landing here in FS, you also have to realize that everything is distorted in FS. I can grease landings in a Cessna flying outside of the sim. In the sim? Hardly. Even the RealAir one that has better dynamics. What we have in the sim is always going to be off. It's a simulation, or in other words, an approximation of reality. If you want better, go book a 737 sim at FlightSafety. If you want reality, go buy a 737, or get rated and hired to fly one.

[Chock 17,769]

I suspect the people claiming the landing phase is difficult, are those with minimal flight sim or real world experience. Martin Wilby

I suspect you are correct, but that does not mean people who don't fly for real cannot get into it; you make mistakes when learning to fly, you study them and then you improve by figuring out where you went wrong in that analysis, and that's the same in a sim, or in the real world. I've had little bother at all putting the PMDG 737 down on the deck, floated a bit the second ever time I tried a landing with it, but I thought, right, better watch out for that, and all was fine thereafter, just like it is when you fly any aeroplane and learn its nuances. Admittedly I am used to flying simulated 737s since I've got all of them and it's my favourite airliner, and I do fly for real too (although not airliners), but the fact is if you flare an aeroplane too early with too much speed on the clock, it will float a long way down the runway as it gains lift from the ground effect, anyone who is real world pilot will confirm that is the case in everything with wings, from a C172 to the space shuttle, and I bet we've all done it when we were learning to fly for real, I know I did. Practice and a knowledge of where you went wrong is all it takes. Bash a few circuits out with the NG if you are having problems landing it, just like any real-world student pilot would do, and we are all student pilots as far as the NGX is concerned. Al

[vc10man 732]

I suspect you are correct, but that does not mean people who don't fly for real cannot get into it; you make mistakes when learning to fly, you study them and then you improve by figuring out where you went wrong in that analysis, and that's the same in a sim, or in the real world. I've had little bother at all putting the PMDG 737 down on the deck, floated a bit the second ever time I tried a landing with it, but I thought, right, better watch out for that, and all was fine thereafter, just like it is when you fly any aeroplane and learn its nuances. Admittedly I am used to flying simulated 737s since I've got all of them and it's my favourite airliner, and I do fly for real too (although not airliners), but the fact is if you flare an aeroplane too early with too much speed on the clock, it will float a long way down the runway as it gains lift from the ground effect, anyone who is real world pilot will confirm that is the case in everything with wings, from a C172 to the space shuttle, and I bet we've all done it when we were learning to fly for real, I know I did. Practice and a knowledge of where you went wrong is all it takes. Bash a few circuits out with the NG if you are having problems landing it, just like any real-world student pilot would do, and we are all student pilots as far as the NGX is concerned. Al

Good to see you back,Al. Missed your salient inputs. A well thought-out reply. As always, you encourage.