"Galloping Ghost" crashes at Reno Air Races

[flaminghotsauce 1]

Trim tab was missing on the aircraft in the final seconds. Control problems. Mayday was called. These were mechanical issues, and I wish everyone wouldn't kneejerk about someone's age. Gotta be in very top condition to fly these beasts and he was.

[N400QW 205]

Trim tab was missing on the aircraft in the final seconds. Control problems. Mayday was called. These were mechanical issues, and I wish everyone wouldn't kneejerk about someone's age. Gotta be in very top condition to fly these beasts and he was.

Just saw the clip of the trim tab failure and have to consider the loss at that airspeed as a contributing factor....

[Raindance 25]

I imagine the age of the pilot was less likely to be a factor than the age of the plane. Anybody know how old it was? Obviously it wouldn't be flying without a certificate, but metal fatigue can be a sly and lethal killer in aviation. The only Red Bull race I've watched was on TV, flown along the Thames in London a few years back. There the contestants flew timed circuits individually. Do they race in groups in the States? Is it like Formula 1 up in the air? It isn't something I take much interest in, I have to say. My condolences to all the bereaved, of course, and best hopes for the injured.

[Superpilotv2 2]

Condolences to the pilot´s family and all the other victims.

I hope this doesn't lead to stricter regulations in regards to spectator viewing. I watched the Red Bull Air Race in NYC and it was amazing to be so close to these planes whipping through the course. That's part of the experience for me. Risk included.

Well, here in Germay airshows and such things are completely forbidden after one thragic airshow accident at ramstein airbase some year´s back. So we don´t have any air force display team like the Blue Angels. Somehow badly, cause things have changed till then.

[Jeff Smith 0]

I believe Al is correct, Jeff. We all understand you're intentions are sincere when you ask us not to add to the plethora of misinformation that inevitably surrounds a tragedy such as this. We also can feel the pain emanating from your words. All of us offer our condolences and support to you and to those good folks most directly affected. The inevitable discussions that are generated by a tragedy such as this and that take place among folks with similar interests are necessary and, many times, therapeutic. We certainly all join together in praying for the swift recovery of those injured as we offer our hearts to those families who must now bear the grief of serendipitous and tragic loss.

Thanks Jo... I understand the therapeutic nature discussions can bring and I wasn't trying to direct anything to any one person, just to everyone as whole. I have an emotional attachment to the event itself, as I look forward to it each year and with the people you tend to meet at the event from all over the world. My thoughts and prayers go out to Jimmy Leeward's family, RARA, the spectator's families, and to those affected directly and indirectly by the crash. I would also like to thank those involved with the first response yesterday, including the 100 or so bystandards that helped with administering CPR and other activities to help those directly after the crash.

[Jeff Smith 0]

I imagine the age of the pilot was less likely to be a factor than the age of the plane. Anybody know how old it was? Obviously it wouldn't be flying without a certificate, but metal fatigue can be a sly and lethal killer in aviation. The only Red Bull race I've watched was on TV, flown along the Thames in London a few years back. There the contestants flew timed circuits individually. Do they race in groups in the States? Is it like Formula 1 up in the air? It isn't something I take much interest in, I have to say. My condolences to all the bereaved, of course, and best hopes for the injured.

They do race in groups of 6 to 8 depending on the class of aircraft. It is like F1 in the air in some respects. The crash yesterday happened during a heat race to set up the final grid races for the weekend events. The aircraft vary in age that are usually flying there, but are well maintained. The pilots are highly skilled and go through pylon seminars, medical checks, and other safety related measures leading up to each event every year. Mechanical failure is the most common cause of the accidents at the races. The stresses the aircraft endure during this event, especially with the Unlimited class, push the envelope just like any other motorsport event. RARA has been at the forefront to keep safety its highest priority during this event. They have moved the front stretch of the course back away from the the crowd a couple of times since I have been attending the event and rounded out the corners of the course to help with the aircraft stresses. This year they even disqualified a handful of Jet class aircraft at the event because of safety concerns with an engine modification.

[Chock 17,769]

It's looking (from the evidence pictures provide), that the port elevator trim tab busted off (not completely, it was still attached), caused the pitch up, blacked the pilot out, and it went in as a result of all that. One presumes from the fact that Jimmy Leeward apparently got on the radio about the fault, that it was not a coronary or anything like that, although ultimately it is likely it will have been a physiological problem that has led to the loss of control owing to the high G the failure will have generated. It's occurred before, with another P-51 at Reno (Voodoo Chile if I recall correctly, might be wrong on that), same port trim tab failure and same pitch up, although on that occasion, the aircraft zoom climbed and the pilot recovered and managed a safe landing, on that occasion luck being good rather than bad. Age considerations aside even though that will doubtless have been a factor, pretty much anyone is going to black out in a rapid pitch up like that (I start feeling dodgy at 6G, most people go out at 8G, and it will have been nearer 10G looking at the accident footage), and it is then down to luck whether the controls move into a favourable or unfavourable position to allow the pilot time to regain conciousness. Anyone who has ever been to a race knows this kind of thing happens on occasion and that is never going to change, it's just the way high performance racing is and always has been, and the risk includes spectators too of course, most of whom are aware that is the case and accept it as the racers do. It is nevertheless very sad when it occurs, but hopefully it will not lead to any sort of mandates to prevent racing from continuing, as life would indeed be longer if that happened, but it would also be considerably less worth living. Al

[Jeff Smith 0]

Anyone who has ever been to a race knows this kind of thing happens on occasion and that is never going to change, it's just the way high performance racing is and always has been, and the risk includes spectators too of course, most of whom are aware that is the case and accept it as the racers do. It is nevertheless very sad when it occurs, but hopefully it will not lead to any sort of mandates to prevent racing from continuing, as life would indeed be longer if that happened, but it would also be considerably less worth living.

I agree with this 110%

[mgh 89]

, but of course anyone who has ever been to an airshow knows that the ticket has a big disclaimer on the back with regard to the risk of such incidents

In the UK such a disclaimer can't by law apply to death or personal injury. They are also legally dubious because, someone who who attends can't "sign-away" other pwople's rights - if a husband is killed it can't prevent his wife and family suing. Also, iof it only appears on the back of the ticket it's ineffective.

[Chock 17,769]

That's true, but you don't need to be an aerodynamicist, or even an aeroplane enthusiast, to know that when you go to an airshow or race where aeroplanes are doing anything other than sitting on the ground, there is a possibility that one of those aeroplanes will have an accident, since we all know that accidents happen, and those of us who go to airshows will in fact have seen them happen, I know I have, and grim it was. Since we also know that when that occurs, there is a likelihood that an out of control aeroplane won't come down in a conveniently empty field, by definition, we make a choice to put ourself at greater risk when going through the gate to that airfield, and that is our choice. The only time it would be really arguable is if we took someone along who did not have the mental capacity to decide upon that choice for themselves, such as a child, or someone with a mental disability, and even then it would to a large extent, be the responsibility of the person who took them, just as it would be if you grabbed their hand and ran across a busy road with them. My wife is no aeroplane enthusiast, but I'm sure she is aware that whenever we go to an airfield, there is an attendant risk in doing so, especially since she knows that once or twice I have come home from a day's flying and told her that there was a fatality, once with her even having heard it on the radio and been concerned that it might have involved me before I walked in the house. She knows that flying can be unforgiving sometimes, as does everyone else. Al

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Also in the USA even though in events such as this Airshow and a disclaimer will not stop letigation from the loss of life or personal injury law suits. The lawyers will get in there and look for areas where the organizers failed to properly protect the public making such disclaimers nil and void. I imagine there will be a long investigation and findings will come out even beyond this accident pointing fingers at the organizers. This will take years to be determined but this is how you get around disclaimers. I feel sorry for the pilot as this sort of thing would be the last thing in the world anyone would want to have happen. He won't have to live with this accident however any good pilot would go to great lengths to avoid a collision with people on the ground like that. It seems he didn't have a chance or was at least trying to pull away from the bleachers.

[mgh 89]

Would you accept a similar disclaimer on the back of an airline ticket? After all, we all known there's a risk associated with flying. If your children survived would you be happy at the thought of them being brought up in poverty when they might be entitled to compensation?

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

That's just it....I've never heard of anyone who didn't pursue litigation because of a disclaimer and I've never heard of a disclaimer that can actually stand up in a case with this type of loss of life and personal injury.

[Guest jahman]

Would you accept a similar disclaimer on the back of an airline ticket? After all, we all known there's a risk associated with flying. If your children survived would you be happy at the thought of them being brought up in poverty when they might be entitled to compensation?

Good point! The answer to obviate lawsuits is of course is insurance, so premiums (and ticket costs) will reflect the measurable risk. The organizers then could sell optional accident insurance, so that thse that don't buy the insurance would have a much weaker case in court i they sue for damages. This is all a very complex subject of course. For those near the blueprints of the P-51, it would be interesting to calculate the maximum stick force generated by an elevator trim-tab falling off at Vne, and for those with the P-51's POH my question would be what is the flight envelope max +ve G's. Cheers, - jahman.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Their is breaking news at the moment of another airshow crash in Martinsburg, West Virginia involving a post-WW2 era T-28 aircraft. The only reported casualty is the pilot. Not a good weekend for airshows.