All that seam to matter is graphics?

[dave600 0]

Hi all, been a reader and flight simmer for years but never posted so hi all.After reading every post all people seam to care about is the graphics of the sim? "Looks like fsx nothing more than fsx sp3 " etc etc.What about the important things that matter the most, I.e flight model?? Weather systems ( ridge lift, thermals, wave, turbulence etc) all these things are what matter to the way the aircraft reacts when flying, fsx is ok but the flight model especially the rudder which is not modelled correctly at all needs updating, ground friction needs to be modelled correctly I could go on,Maybe flight looks like fsx because this time around and hopefully they are concentrating on the things we can't see in screenshots? Personally I don't mind if flight looks like fsx as long as bugs are fixed and the most important things are modelled correctly that really matter, I solely fly ga aircraft for the scenery which add ons provide but what they can't do is correct the errors in the flight models and weather that lie deep inside the fsx code just work around it the best they can.Just thought I'd put this out there for all to read.RegardsDavid.

[Chock 17,769]

If you've ever read any of my posts, you'll know this is something I regularly bring up, so it isn't really a case of 'all people seem to care about is the graphics', more a case of 'what a fairly large number of people seem to care most about', with most probably a large number of them not being real-world flyers, and so not realising how important this aspect is, which you can hardly blame them for if they've little or no knowledge or experience of it. But we are out there, I'm certainly not the only one who cares about this aspect, although as noted, it is mostly GA pilots and principally glider pilots like myself that care most about this sort of thing, and I make a point of being the Avsim flag carrier for this aspect. Fortunately, we have the likes of HiFi Simulations and Aerosoft, who also care enough about this sort of thing to make add-ons of gliders and simulations of vertical air movement for FSX, and the creator of EZDOK, who makes it apparent how much an aeroplane is at the will of the air mass, since these developers too, are aware that aeroplanes do not drive along invisible rails in the air. Just keep in mind that, you can look as hard as you like, but you won't see a thermal on a screenshot, so all is not yet lost. Al

[dave600 0]

If you've ever read any of my posts, you'll know this is something I regularly bring up, so it isn't really a case of 'all people seem to care about is the graphics', more a case of 'what a fairly large number of people seem to care most about', with most probably a large number of them not being real-world flyers, and so not realising how important this aspect is, which you can hardly blame them for if they've little or no knowledge or experience of it. But we are out there, I'm certainly not the only one who cares about this aspect, although as noted, it is mostly GA pilots and principally glider pilots like myself that care most about this sort of thing, and I make a point of being the Avsim flag carrier for this aspect. Fortunately, we have the likes of HiFi Simulations and Aerosoft, who also care enough about this sort of thing to make add-ons of gliders and simulations of vertical air movement for FSX, and the creator of EZDOK, who makes it apparent how much an aeroplane is at the will of the air mass, since these developers too, are aware that aeroplanes do not drive along invisible rails in the air. Just keep in mind that, you can look as hard as you like, but you won't see a thermal on a screenshot, so all is not yet lost. Al

I myself a glider pilot irl, so these things do matter to us. :)The sim does not need to be a top range million pound simulator to model basic physics, try condor for a flight model, a cheap small time gliding sim which destroys fsx in that department, also please read what I put, addon companies can only do so much within the limitations of fsx itself, that's what I'm hoping gets addressed in flight along with most real life pilots that sim. Were part of the many types of people who enjoy siming.RegardsDave.

[matt112r 0]

IMO graphics are what matters. Sure you can have all of your airplane models PMDG quality with all systems and performance simulated, but how many simmers are actually going to use the model to its full potential? I personally, like to feel as if I were within the sim, to make the surroundings look as real as possible. If graphics didn't matter more than flight model then you'd be flying a T7 depicted as a horizontal cylinder flying over miles of poorly constructed terrain... but then again your flight sim 777 flies exactly like a real world 777 would.

[Chock 17,769]

I myself a glider pilot irl, so these things do matter to us. :)

Well, if you are, as I am too, a glider pilot, you're far better off with the sims Silent Wings or Condor, than you are with anything MS is going to bring out, the flight modeling and vertical air movement simulation in either of those makes FS look like a joke by comparison for those interested in such specific simulation details, and I don't imagine the release of Flight is going to change that state of affairs. You can see that in the price of Silent Wings, which incidentally, is worth it. Al

[Guest comma]

FS is all about immersion. At the stage of "ok flight dynamics" FSX is (especially for liners) i do think with a properly setup sim (read below) external graphics account now about 90% of immersion, and this is where the improvement is to be in the software. You can now build a "relatively-cheap" (still a few thousand dollars, but hey, this has a perceived million dollar value and cool factor) and fantasticly immersive cockpit for FSX. Go buy 3 used cheap external LCD (any size, i still use old 17" !) for external view, 2 used cheap LCD (for PFD, ND, EICAS), another cheap computer unit, a matrox triple head, a joystick - rudder - throttle set, a hardware MCP, a hardware CDU and a bunch of Goflight modules. Then you build your own MIP with wood and paint it. Forget about virtual cockpit or PMDG 737NG package and buy Project Magenta Software, anything else is garbage to an immersive point of view, you just can't fly reasticly with a mouse and a trackir or switching views, you need real instrument in real size in front of you (it just LCD now !) and an external static view, that my friend is the things most simmers did not understand at this time. So now you're sitting on a cockpit with very acceptable flight dynamics for a 80$ game, especially if you fly a liner (i think anyone should forget about creating a realistic experience with GA, guys you need MOTION AWARNESS to fly GA, or you're just doing IR on a C150 where is the point, just show up to your club and rent a C150, you CAN do it, most of us WON'T have the chance to fly a liner in their whole life). The only things that now remind you that you use a 5 years old game is your external views, with relatively poor graphics in respect of what we can do in 2011. And trust me, this the most immersive-limiting things FSX has to be blame for as of today. Go fix it. PS / just to clarify, not to be rude to GA flying at all, just saying that you will never a realistic flight experience with GA without motion awarness, I think that's not possible so this is not a problem to fix in a sim because it can't be. I in fact fly GA in FSX to train for NAVIGATION for PPL,this is totally ok, but i don't have to trust flight dynamics for that matter.And finally with the low and slow GA, Graphics are definitely the things to enhance to get more immersion, thermal won't really help.

Edited September 19, 2011 by comma

[Bread Hammer 1]

All it takes is $$$$$$$$$$

[alainneedle1 97]

All it takes is $$$$$$$$$$

Don't play with toys.....go all in...http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_263040&v=XwHVKuytXU8&src_vid=lVAA_lmoDwY&feature=iv

[Bread Hammer 1]

Don't play with toys.....go all in...http://www.youtube.c...oDwY&feature=iv

I was replying to comma's post about the lack of motion. Correct me if I'm wrong but that guy's setup doesn't appear to simulate motion. Wicked sick none the less.

[alainneedle1 97]

I was replying to comma's post about the lack of motion. Correct me if I'm wrong but that guy's setup doesn't appear to simulate motion. Wicked sick none the less.

I know, I was just showing what $110,000.00 can give you without the simulation motion...I think.

[simmerhead 885]

To me graphics and terrain/map accuracy are the most important elements of the entire flight simulator experience. That isn’t to say that better simulation of weather, flight dynamics and system fidelity would be nice, but it is quite good as is, and even better with a few inexpensive addons. Flying a real aircraft is so extremely different from what you can experience in a desktop simulator anyway. Most of the physical and mental elements of real flight is impossible to simulate. Having flown two real simulators operated by commercial airlines I can tell you that weather simulation is very basic. If realism is what you’re aiming for a real cockpit is probably the one thing that will make a real difference.

[dave600 0]

I have yoke,pedels, track ir, iPad2 as radio stack etc etc etc been a flightsim fan since fs95, and yes Al I fly gliders, but fsx gives me what I dream of and that's flyin ga aircraft that's out of my finances in real life.Graphics do play a huge part to the immersion factor and with the likes of orbx we get all the eye candy, but what developers can't do is what they want to when it comes down to flight models and the weather systems that's limited to code deep inside fsx that developers can't chance, the likes of real air and A2A do amazing work but they even say in manuals "limitation of fsx code" that's what I'd like to see opened up in flight,Just a discussion not asking for heated comments ;)RegardsDace.

[andyjohnston.net 617]

its not designed to be FFA simulator that can reach price point to $100+

Isn't XPlane FAA certified?

[simmerhead 885]

Yep, the X-Plane PRO versions that costs $500 and $1000! In addition I guess you'll need a real FAA-certified flight instructor and appropriate hardware to make use of it.

[Guest ShinyJetSyndrome]

Isn't XPlane FAA certified?

Microsoft ESP is FAA certified in the form of the flight training devices sold by Redbird Flight Simulations.