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CPT.KRISTIAN

What is Prepar3D?

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Hi Konrad, We don't draw the same conclusion and it appears quite a few people are reading a lot more into it than we do. We could obviously argue about language and intent all day and I know that there is an ongoing debate that has been going on for years in these forums about the distinction. I will leave it for other people to continue the debate if they so wish in these forums. So for the record, we do not consider Prepar3d to be a game and I am sure that anyone using it doesn't consider it a game. It is a powerful training tool built on top of a very powerful platform that everyone here is familiar with. People that fly in real life can consider flying a hobby as I do (actually a passion!), but that doesn't mean that I would consider my hobby as a game. (My personal opinion.) I have built multi-million dollar simulators for the military and have had people comment that these are the biggest video games that they have ever seen! Obviously they aren't video games, but boy, people sure do have fun in them. (Well, at least until they get multiple system malfunctions thrown at them in a lighting storm.) I have also built helicopter and GA simulators at home over the years. There are many papers written on the use of simulation in training to make that training more enjoyable. It is really the end-users intent that dictates the conformity with the EULA. If people want a game, then certainly do not purchase Prepar3D, there are some excellent alternatives coming up if they do want a game and encourage those people to explore that option for sure. I can promise that we will continue to develop Prepar3D into a deeply engaging and realistic simulation framework for anyone that needs it. I will bow out of the conversation at this point! Regards,John NicolPrepar3D

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The downside of Lockheed Martin licensing the Microsoft ESP platform were the conditions that Microsoft imposed on that transaction. Prepar3D cannot be marketed as a game and it cannot be sold at a game price point.

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The downside of Lockheed Martin licensing the Microsoft ESP platform were the conditions that Microsoft imposed on that transaction. Prepar3D cannot be marketed as a game and it cannot be sold at a game price point.
Hi Mike, It is true that we are not licensing the application as an entertainment product, however licensing conditions between Microsoft and Lockheed Martin remain confidential. Any statement such as the above that presents itself as factual that has not come from Lockheed Martin is not endorsed by Lockheed Martin in any way, shape or form. Unfortunately I cannot comment on the above apart from indicate that you have made some factual errors. Regards,John NicolPrepar3D

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Do I smell a locked thread or what..... Just having fun with you all.... Clown.gif
I for one am getting a bit tired of locked threads. I don't know mmann but I do know that if he is not either a lawyer for MS or a lawyer for LM then there is no way he can speak with any certain knowledge. Their may be more going on here than we know but it seems that AVSIM should be dealing with induviduals at this point and not killing sane discussion on a subject that many are interested in. Not flaming anyone, just seaking a bit of knowledge and discussion.
BTW, Prepar3D 1.2 is now released.
Thanks for the headsup John.

Sam

Prepar3D V5.3/12700K@5.1/EVGA 3080 TI/1000W PSU/Windows 10/40" 4K Samsung@3840x2160/ASP3D/ASCA/ORBX/
ChasePlane/General Aviation/Honeycomb Alpha+Bravo/MFG Rudder Pedals/

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I'm going to download version 1.2 now. Thank you for the notice. So far I am extremely pleased with Prepar3D. Now about AVSIM. It is, and has been my primary online home from before fs2004, first as a daily lurker, then as a member. From time to time I hung my hat briefly elsewhere, here and there, looking for that mysterious feeling called home. I always end up back at AVSIM. Why? -Because I was welcomed and treated very well over the years and that's good, since I feel I belong here. AVSIM is where I entered the struggle to make fs9, then FSX work, and thereby rubbed shoulders with some of the best people in the world (at least in my world). At AVSIM I learned to appreciate a helping hand when over my head, and tried, in turn, to do the same for others, with kindness. It will certainly remain my flightsim home as long as it provides the community information, friendships, and support for my flight simulation passion, whether that be in FSX, X-Plane 10 or Prepar3D. At this point I have FSX and am pursuing Prepar3D, and am not particularily interested in MS Flight anymore. So, it is a bit difficult to know where to express myself about these things right now, or even what is considered proper ettiquette on this subject by the leadership, whom I equally respect and support. Complaining is not in my DNA, and I am not starting now, but if this is home, where is my room? unsure.png Just point me in the right direction and I'm good to go. Kind regards,

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Hi Konrad: I am still unclear what removes the "game" moniker from Prepar3D. Prepar3D is simply FSX with commercial licensing attributed to it. I'm sure that you have attached your talents to fixing a multitude of ills in ways that MS couldn't and wouldn't. I also understand that Lockheed Martin markets it as a "training tool" but there are dozens of users here at Avsim that use it to replace FSX which, is a game - and it is perfectly interchangeable. If I take your Level D simulator analogy as a marker then the only differentiator is "price". Lockheed Martin cannot sell Prepar3D in the entertainment isle at Best Buy only because MS doesn't want the product competing with itself at a consumer level. But if allowed, Prepar3D would fit perfectly in the Games isle at Best Buy, could be marketed as FS 10.5 and sell briskly at $40. Am I missing the boat here or has Lockheed Martin transformed FSX into something unrecognizable as a game title?

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Hi Konrad: I am still unclear what removes the "game" moniker from Prepar3D. Prepar3D is simply FSX with commercial licensing attributed to it. I'm sure that you have attached your talents to fixing a multitude of ills in ways that MS couldn't and wouldn't. I also understand that Lockheed Martin markets it as a "training tool" but there are dozens of users here at Avsim that use it to replace FSX which, is a game - and it is perfectly interchangeable. If I take your Level D simulator analogy as a marker then the only differentiator is "price". Lockheed Martin cannot sell Prepar3D in the entertainment isle at Best Buy only because MS doesn't want the product competing with itself at a consumer level. But if allowed, Prepar3D would fit perfectly in the Games isle at Best Buy, could be marketed as FS 10.5 and sell briskly at $40. Am I missing the boat here or has Lockheed Martin transformed FSX into something unrecognizable as a game title?
That is certainly not true !! P3D is based on Microsoft's ESP platform which was basically a full simulation development platform for developers.LM have trnsformed it into much more this year.It now has the capabilities for developing Maritime, Aviation, Military. style missions and much more.It could be used to develop something like a zoo or wildlife park !FSX certainly is and never was in that league.The possibilities with P3D are endless. It could be used to simulate almost anything in our world. both above and under water.To compare this to FSX is like comparing a home network with 4 computers to the World Wide Web.

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The difference between a tool and a toy is how you use it....right?If you are using FSX as a tool, for instance for GA training, then it's not a game.ESP wasn't a game and neither is Prepar3D, only because training is the intended use.The real difference is the EULA allows it.You can certainly use either as a game - for entertainment.The difference has nothing to do with software...for the most part they are all identical.If you’re using a simulator outside of a structured training environment then your using a game.

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That is certainly not true !! P3D is based on Microsoft's ESP platform which was basically a full simulation development platform for developers.LM have trnsformed it into much more this year.It now has the capabilities for developing Maritime, Aviation, Military. style missions and much more.It could be used to develop something like a zoo or wildlife park !FSX certainly is and never was in that league.The possibilities with P3D are endless. It could be used to simulate almost anything in our world. both above and under water.To compare this to FSX is like comparing a home network with 4 computers to the World Wide Web.
Eh? I'm not sure what you're talking about. FSX is being used in a full motion simulator at a flight school in my area. What EXACTLY has LM done to change ESX? Is there a new SDK that allows functionality outside of the FSX SDK? If so what are they? FSX can be a zoo too since it came with swimming whales and migrating wilderbeasts. As a matter of fact Train Sim 2 was going to be based on the FSX engine so it can be a trainsimulator too. You make a large claim comparing FSX to a network with 4 computers and ESX to the Internet (you hit home there since I work for Cisco and am a CCIE :-). Details please.

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Hi Konrad: I am still unclear what removes the "game" moniker from Prepar3D. Prepar3D is simply FSX with commercial licensing attributed to it. I'm sure that you have attached your talents to fixing a multitude of ills in ways that MS couldn't and wouldn't. I also understand that Lockheed Martin markets it as a "training tool" but there are dozens of users here at Avsim that use it to replace FSX which, is a game - and it is perfectly interchangeable. If I take your Level D simulator analogy as a marker then the only differentiator is "price". Lockheed Martin cannot sell Prepar3D in the entertainment isle at Best Buy only because MS doesn't want the product competing with itself at a consumer level. But if allowed, Prepar3D would fit perfectly in the Games isle at Best Buy, could be marketed as FS 10.5 and sell briskly at $40. Am I missing the boat here or has Lockheed Martin transformed FSX into something unrecognizable as a game title?
Don't think so, there is some sharp business man involved in this, $9.99 per month = more than $40.00....have I not see somewhere that you'll have to pay a minimal fee to have your sceneries compatible with Prepar3D 1.2.....

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That is certainly not true !! P3D is based on Microsoft's ESP platform which was basically a full simulation development platform for developers.LM have trnsformed it into much more this year.It now has the capabilities for developing Maritime, Aviation, Military. style missions and much more.It could be used to develop something like a zoo or wildlife park !FSX certainly is and never was in that league.The possibilities with P3D are endless. It could be used to simulate almost anything in our world. both above and under water.To compare this to FSX is like comparing a home network with 4 computers to the World Wide Web.
This isn't really true either, in that all these products FSX, ESP, FS11, Flight, and Prepar3D originate from the same core. But as you say, what is exciting about Prepar3D is that it has new work that expands on and refines ESP.

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Eh? I'm not sure what you're talking about. FSX is being used in a full motion simulator at a flight school in my area. What EXACTLY has LM done to change ESX? Is there a new SDK that allows functionality outside of the FSX SDK? If so what are they? FSX can be a zoo too since it came with swimming whales and migrating wilderbeasts. As a matter of fact Train Sim 2 was going to be based on the FSX engine so it can be a trainsimulator too. You make a large claim comparing FSX to a network with 4 computers and ESX to the Internet (you hit home there since I work for Cisco and am a CCIE :-). Details please.
Hello MikeRead here for how P3D stacks up against FSXhttp://www.prepar3d....-release-notes/One potentially big addition" New example and article documentation on leveraging the new ExternalSim APIs to run the user’s own aerodynamic model and simulation through SimConnect in Prepar3D"Realistic turbo prop simulation ?

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