Kev,So far I haven't busted it yet but then again I am using the parameters I specified when we built the profile.It's possible that in order to make it simpler (for the user) the complications you don't see are causing some users (and not all, which is frustrating) problems so we are going to have to refine this further. One of these is some tweaks I have had to make to pressure and temp thresholds, which are done and tested and which we'll soon post. What we are doing is not supported by FS itself, you see, and we didn't have these issues with the 20+ folks who tested this stuff on more than fifty different PC's. Whilst that's a fair sample of users it proves that we can't always innovate and get it right for everyone first time around. There may be background events in some FS installs that are interfering with the model but as yet we do not know. What I do know is that the parameters are right but that something is tripping damage. We may well have erred which is what we are now trying to ascertain. Fortunately, in this it's only monopoly money involved .Starting in FS2002 was a problem uless automixture is on. The best result for one function in FS2004 doesn't like FS2002 but only under some conditions. I fixed that, but I can't find a problem in FS2004 re starting and am still looking for it. Statistically, only a couple of percent are finding it an issue so I am reaching a bit trying to solve it ... but I/we will.Please use our support forum for direct support : I'm only generalising here because it's not our house.Best,http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Hi Michael,Well, it's not meant to be a tease LOL ... we can't even post images of the completed new models even on our own server it seems.I thought we had already posted the paint kit ? I'll have to suss it out and fix that ... Keith, Dennis and Janey have done a swag of paints so it must be about somewhere.Glad you are enjoying it !Best,http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

The documentation isn't incorrect. It's just that we left out the cruise tables, that's all, and I've already posted them in our support forum - a venue which this is not. If you read the kneeboard files the upper limits are already included for easy reference but if a user doesn't read those, they're unlikely to read the POH either :-)http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Michael,Thank you for the kind words.Yes, a Paint Kit will be coming soon.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

As Steve pointed out, good results cannot be guaranteed on your OS platform. However, short of a reformat and Windows upgrade, have you tried uninstalling, then reinstalling the aircraft? Sometimes that clears up problems like file corruptions, etc. during original installation.I hear what you are saying about reinstallation of Windows. It is a big step that I am now forced to take as well in the next week or so. I have a 3-year old installation of Windows 2000, and after a while the old horse just needs to be put out to pasture. So I'll go get me a nice 120 GB hard drive and do a clean install of Win XP.Your system is two operating systems farther out of date than mine. This is something you really should be thinking about. The topic of this aircraft and Flight Sim in general notwithstanding.Food for thought. http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

>So much anger in the forums now-good reminder why I stay away>more and more...by the way what does rtfm mean?RTFM is one of my favorite FLAs. I think you've figured it out by now 8^) .Seriously though, please don't stop participating here - I value and enjoy the comments of a fellow RL pilot that nonetheless still seems to be as nuts about simming as I am. ---My .02 is that this is a very passionate hobby for many of us here, and sometimes the Politeness Filter gets left off for some reason, or else someone's post is misunderstood since it's only text on a screen, without the nuances of the spoken word.As I like to say, everyone should speak as if their audience is standing there in front of them - thus leaving the latter with the option to punch the offender's lights out 8^) .I'm mostly kidding, but IMO it keeps things very civil.And now, I'm off to consider buying the Seneca. I am perfectly happy with my F1 C421C, as well as the other payware airplanes in my stable, but this damage/misuse modeling thing has me intrigued - I must confess to wanting to see if I can make a flight, using my "common sense", without having the engines quit for no apparent reason!Dave Blevins

Well Guys, thanks for the replies and Tim for the email.Obviously, soon, I will have to update my os but it is just that it runs everything I have at this time just perfect. About every 6 months I reinstall it, did this 3 months ago, and swore I wouldn't try this driver and that mem cleaner, etc. It is dependable and runs at 88% resources free. Your Cheyenne runs just fine.Maybe I can ask you something just to be sure.When you buy the aircraft you get an id and pw. The first time you install, it asks for this, checks the internet and installs. Now mine did this but the next installs didn't ask and now that I have tried about 4 times the 4th install can't seem to find this "license" and so load manager won't boot? Is this the way it is supposed to work?Pretty soon I'll have to give up!Thanks for the help!Charles

Hi guys,I agree with Martin, Paul, Dan, et al. The engine failure problem is very real and it's NOT caused by pilot error. For the record, I have my realism set at "intermediate" - but I don't think the damage thresholds are the problem... it's all in the Oil Temperature. After engine start, the Temp rises to the middle of the scale within seconds (way too fast and way too high). After taxiing to the runway, I did my run-up and noticed that Oil Temp was almost pegged at the red-line (way too high). After throttling back to idle, the Temp immediately came back to the middle (way too fast). At that point, I knew I had a problem - but I took off anyway to make this post more convincing. I used around 34" MAP at 2400 RPM (well below normal) for take-off and gradually reduced throttle during the climb to "baby" the engines as much as possible. Unfortunately, the engines gave out around 6000 feet because of the high Oil Temps. The prop RPM solution doesn't hold water - at a high MAP, you would want the prop RPM as high as possible... not beating up the sky at 2100 RPM! This problem is not a show-stopper - but it is DEFINATELY a problem. Steve, if the oil pressure had also been low, I'd suggest that the oil lines were clogged - but that doesn't seem to be the case.See ya,Marc

Hi Steve,You misunderstand me, if you fly the Navajo, to the figures provided using real world damage the engines last a very short amount of time.This is not only me who have this problem, something is wrong somewhere, I have posted this on your forum but as yet I have had no response.I will contact you directly to see if this can be resolved.CheersDan.

Dan,I need to again emphasise that this is not our support forum.Conducting simultaneous conversations in two different forums and now in direct mail doesn't seem the best investment of the available time I need to assign to trying to find out what the issue here is. I have both indicated here and elsewhere that I/we are gathering feedback and working on what is happening for some users. As an interim I have also suggested both here and elsewhere that you can disable damage as an interim measure.I wish we could precisely ascertain just yet what is happening for some users and why it is only happening with some users - presently about 2%. Please use our support forum which is where you will get the most timely information. Best,http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Steve_signature.gif

Hi Steve,I am very sorry that this is not the best investment of time, I posted this on the support forum 2 days ago, no one answered my posts, even an agknowledgement would have been nice.Yes I agree with you that this is not a support forum, this is AVSIM's forum, but at least I have had some response on here.I thought the best bet was to contact you directly, obviously this was not the best course of action for you.What should I have done?.Sorry to have caused you so much troubleDan.

Dan,What Steve is saying is that we look forward to talking with you anywhere, but let's just make it one place or another. Otherwise it gets confusing as to who-said-what-where.I am not aware of any support mail or forum inquiry we have recived from anyone that has gone unanswered for more than a few hours. Usually for when we slack off and go to sleep for a few...;-)http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

I'm curious, for those that noticed the oil temperature problem, did you happen to open the cowl flaps to full? Does this have any effect, or are the cowl flaps decorative? Gotta have those puppies open on the real McCoy.

Yep,The cowl flaps were open all the way (with the Navajo, its either open or closed, no in-between). Good suggestion though... that's exactly what I thought might be the problem when I first read this thread. Unfortunately, the problem goes a little deeper than that. I hope this discussion doesn't deter anyone from buying an otherwise excellent airplane - if you don't mess with the default realism settings in the Load Manager, the engines will continue to run.Regards,Marc

Marc,We will be looking further into this. It is hard to comment more at this point, as I have not been able to reproduce it yet.This is a longshot, but I'll ask; you do not have the simulator speed set above zero do you? This will speed everything up, including the damage modeling.http://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif