Short review after 1 day of usage

[Jean-Paul 167]

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Alain,Or the link is wrong, or the thread is gone. Strange how some of you guys seem to have an issue with us enjoying Oops ! finding better performance with P3D than with FSX. I wonder why ?

[alainneedle1 97]

Alain,Or the link is wrong, or the thread is gone. Strange how some of you guys seem to have an issue with us enjoying Oops ! finding better performance with P3D than with FSX. I wonder why ?

The thread is gone, just to make something clear here... I have no problems what so ever with Prepar3D or LM, as far as I am concern they can do what ever they want, no skin off my nose, if you enjoy or find better perf. in Prepar3D knock yourself out.....hoping it will stay like that, I would hate to see you all left high'n'dry at any time, with no warning because MS does not agree with the fact that LM as re-branded the consumer instead of renegotiating the deal to re-write the T and C's as Simon Evans (a poster from Aerosoft) pointed it out with good reasons...but MS may not care also....

[Jean-Paul 167]

Simon Evans Snave himself ! He's been thrown out of every forum except Aerosoft's. Come on Alain, don't be silly.

[alainneedle1 97]

Simon Evans Snave himself ! He's been thrown out of every forum except Aerosoft. Come on Alain, don't be silly.

It's not about been thrown out of every forum because he was rude or else it's about what he's saying...does it make sense or not...to me it does make a lot of sense, there is what is called "Spirit of the law" and the same apply to a contract... http://en.wikipedia....irit_of_the_law By the way Snave was answering a post I made on Aerosoft forum... http://forum.aerosof...ic/page__st__40 As I said before, no skin of my nose...

[Jean-Paul 167]

For me, the "Spirit" sums up to this :

Hi Guys, As someone that has been involved with the community for well over 15 years (including being a member of Avsim in another guise - mainly lurking, not posting much!), I know that this is part of the grass roots of the passion and a big reason why I want to engage with you all. We WANT to engage with the community and be as open as we can because the team is just as passionate about the product as you are. Having a strong and vibrant development and user community is important to push the boundaries of the product and make it even better. If we are collaborative, we can concentrate on building the core product and let others worry about the majority of the cool widgets. (We will still make cool widgets though!) Thank you for reaching out to the developers that we haven't been able to engage with yet. The great thing is that there are so many! The bad thing for my calendar and meeting planning is that there are so many! For those that are out there, feel free to send me a note at the Prepar3D website, or post your questions as well if there is anything we can do to assist. Thanks again! Regards,John NicolPrepar3D

If there is a problem, it is up to LM to settle it with MS (or the other way around).

[alainneedle1 97]

For me, the "Spirit" sums up to this : If there is a problem, it is up to LM to settle it with MS (or the other way around).

My point from the beginning, I don't care what they are doing, I'm sure both side have a boat full of lawyers if something need to be settle.....

[Jean-Paul 167]

So we agree. And if it needs to be settled, it won't be in these forums.

[shivers9 1,174]

My point from the beginning, I don't care what they are doing, I'm sure both side have a boat full of lawyers if something need to be settle.....

This entire subject as well as the entire Flight forum has become the "Playground of the Insane"! I can not believe that Tom and AVSIM allow it to go on. This is not a law school forum! Good God! people stop and think....Why on earth would a guy from LM named John, who has a great job and career going just one day decide to come to a forum that has the reputation of being nuts in the first place and blow that entire thing by getting his milti-billion company sued so you and I can have a home sim to enjoy. Guys you got to get a hold on reality!! Some of the same players right here in this forum destroyed any chance we ever had in interfacing with MS developers and you are runnig a high chance of doing the same thing with LM. If AVSIM cares anything about the future of flight sim they will put an end to this dribble from want to be lawyers.

[Jean-Paul 167]

This entire subject as well as the entire Flight forum has become the "Playground of the Insane"! I can not believe that Tom and AVSIM allow it to go on. This is not a law school forum! Good God! people stop and think....Why on earth would a guy from LM named John, who has a great job and career going just one day decide to come to a forum that has the reputation of being nuts in the first place and blow that entire thing by getting his milti-billion company sued so you and I can have a home sim to enjoy. Guys you got to get a hold on reality!! Some of the same players right here in this forum destroyed any chance we ever had in interfacing with MS developers and you are runnig a high chance of doing the same thing with LM. If AVSIM cares anything about the future of flight sim they will put an end to this dribble from want to be lawyers.

+1

[Highiron 21]

I would hate to see you all left high'n'dry at any time, with no warning because MS does not agree with the fact that LM as re-branded the consumer instead of renegotiating the deal to re-write the T and C's as Simon Evans (a poster from Aerosoft) pointed it out with good reasons...but MS may not care also....

Your concern is noted and fair. However, the wonder of the whole thing is that it uses the FSX content that already exists as we currently employ it. The argument would hold more weight if it required me to purchase all new material to run on the Prepare3d platform. Should it become the "scorched Earth" concept you predict will ensue, we are only out the investment for the use of the platform its self, not the content we use within it. I spend 100 times the cost to use it on coffee and meals out every month, and I sure know where that ends up, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying it none the less.

Seriously dude. They need to change their EULA wording then! Until that happens it can not be a viable consumer entertainment product. Everyone invest their time in this then the legal ease pull the plug?

It is not that simple. The EULA's are only as good as the boardroom discussions that wish to enforce or wave them. Have you ever had a police officer give you a warning where perhaps under the law a ticket was due? Boardroom politics is no different. As users of the platform, we are the "end user". It does not state that this is the EULA agreement with Lockheed Martin and Microsoft; (and this is what gets Lockheed Martin, rightfully, upset). As I fail to see any publicly released terms of use of ESP between Lockheed Martin and Microsoft coupled with the statement from a Lockheed Martin representative that all is good, the argument is over for me. The statement when I read it apply's to Prepar3d licensed developers who use it as a core for their projects and need to include the platform with their product. This is not the case in any situation involving third party development of products used within it. PMDG, Orbix, Aerosoft, Captain Sim, and the likes, do not need to include the Prepare3d platform to create or sell their products. If I on the other hand, create a full blown 747 simulator and have the Prepar3d engine as it's core for functionality and is part of the sold package, it states I can, as long as it is not for personal/consumer entertainment products. So I can not sell the system to you, so you can have some fun with your friends in your garage. It's there to plug a loop hole in various legal systems that developers may try to use to skirt around licensing issues and to protect commercial enterprises, so it's not likely going to disappear from their EULA. If Lockheed Martin is offering you to use it, knowing what you are using it for, take it or leave it. It's up to you.

" We WANT to engage with the community and be as open as we can because the team is just as passionate about the product as you are. Having a strong and vibrant development and user community is important to push the boundaries of the product and make it even better."

This is "Us" and "Developers".

"If we are collaborative, we can concentrate on building the core product"

This is Lockheed Martin, us, and developers.

"and let others worry about the majority of the cool widgets."

This is directed to "third party developers".

"Having a strong and vibrant development and user community is important to push the boundaries of the product and make it even better."

This is the most important statement of all. The truth in business is the "Field of Dreams" concept. Build it, and they will come. To make it better they need us, and we need them. Developers spend a lot of time trying to decipher the ebb and flow of the direction of the Flight Simming community. An ever moving target no doubt. The health and vitality of their companies and the people who work for them depend on it. Mr. Randazzo of PMDG has stated that they are not likely to be moving in the direction of the M.S. Flight release after having meetings with M.S. Staffers. This is not concrete but indicates something major would have to have changed since said meeting and the release of Flight. Some of the development team had also spent some time with their 737 NGX project within Prepar3d, and I doubt it was for s**ts and giggles. We are all already aware of Orbix's involvement. Mathijs Kok of Aerosoft has stated they are allowing their products to be exported into Prepar3d by their users without breach of the EULA. Mr. Kok is a smart business man, and I have no doubt he will be watching how many users are moving his products into Prepar3d. The jury is still out for Aerosoft's support of Flight, and I'm sure other developers are also unsure which way to go. Not a good business position to be in. At some point they must choose, and that will be based on user demand, that has yet to be established. The flight simming community and developers are both waiting to see who's going to blink first. The stakes are high for all involved, hence these discussions. Truth is, I want to continue to buy and support products from PMDG, Aerosoft, Captain Sim, Carenado, FSDT, Flightbeam Studios, Fly Tampa, Orbix, and the other multitude of quality vendors, and I all want them on my platform of choice, just like everybody else. So if one wants to have a hand in that process, you have to stand behind something at some point. I have a huge sum of money tied up into FSX, but at some point it will move on, and to a certain extent, we all have a vote in the direction of that progress by what we choose to stand by tomorrow. The developers within reason, will follow. At this point, as I look forward, I'm starting to lean towards Prepar3d. My reasons are numberous, but above all, I believe to be pragamatic. Seeing a full to slight non commital leaning by developers re-enforces my theories.

[alainneedle1 97]

Good post.

[pride545 30]

Somebody delete this topic!!

[Kosta 122]

Somebody delete this topic!!

Why?

[Guest]

I also wonder why... :(

[kelvinr 58]

This topic seems to be out of hand. There will be red tape in every industry, come on, really! we should all be concerned about the end-user side of the product unless you are a training lawyer wanting to pick the EULA to pieces and scour the forum for breaches. There are alot of opinions in this topic but one that I think is valid is this: I don't think LM would check mate themselves or other companies for a quick buck! It's a business and John has been clear about their vision for the product and its longevitiy all along (if you have read all posts like me starting from the ones posted at Mycockpit.org). Let's use what is intended to be a more professional and stable flight trainer and get on with it.