Anyone else look at it this way?

[worldclassleader 0]

(I think this is my first post..lol...woot!!) Ok, so...over the past year, ever since Microsoft announced Flight, there have been many different opinions on the path Microsoft seems to be taking. Lets assume that based on some of the latest info (i.e., the XBOX 360 Yoke, and hints that Flight is geared towards gaming) Flight will be more of a game, versus a sim. From a flight-sim enthusiast perspective, I'm certain this direction (of Flight) is bad news. In fact, I think most of the pro's (based on feedback) aren't too enthused about this new concept of Flight, and they have very good reasons for feeling that way. However, the way I see it, if Microsoft does venture down this path it can be one of the greatest contributions made by Microsoft to the flight-sim community across the globe. Explain. I've been a flight enthusiast for over a decade; I still don't know how to use (1) the cockpit radio, (2) that small digital device that looks like a PDA (next to the throttle quadrant in the 747-400x), (3) map a course, (4) communicate with the tower, and (5) use VOR and what's that other one? ILS? I'm not sure. What I do enjoy most however, is the flight experience. Taking off and landing is pretty fun if you ask me. Till this day, I can never land a plane perfectly down the center of the runway, but I do land, and at times very graciously....lol. I find the fun in flight simulation when I go on short flights in my PMDG 747-400x or 8i, say from Chicago ORD <--I think, to almost any airport that's within 1-2 hours away; I use the radar to see where airports are and then fly in that direction, and start my decent when I'm about 80-40 miles away. I've more than likely done everything unorthodox; my flight skills are far from a true pilot, but it's still fun. Plus, being the systems builder that I am, I can run FSX at excellent quality and have great FPS, and add to that a high definition experience with all of the common add-ons (i.e., REX, ORBX, etc.). On the other hand, my friends and relatives don't see the fun in all of this. For exmaple, my neices and nephews (between the ages of 10-15) won't stay behind the CH Yoke for more than 5 minutes; there's no fun it for them. The "flight" is to sophisticated for them. In fact, when they're over on the weekend and I call out "who wants to play flight?" they don't come running, In fact, they say let's play Call of Duty Black OPs (lol). Even more, my friends of the same age can't bare to watch me play; period. It's very boring to them. Therefore, to most of those in my sphere of influence, FSX is not fun. So, with that being said, if Microsoft does find a way to make Flight more entertaining; to appeal to a broader audience, it would have the potential to collectively take flight simulation to an entirely new level. The flight sim community, as large as it may be, has a tremendous amount of potential for even greater growth. I believe that if young kids or adults can find the fun in Flight, and given enough exposure to the "game," it can conceive the wanting of a more realistic flight simulator for these young aspiring pilots. Consequently, other platforms will benefit from these "new comers," and include LMs Prepar3d, ORBX, PMDG, X-Plane, etc. Therefore, I believe whatever Flight turns out to be, it must be fun-first, because everyone stands to benefit from this [potential] shift in Microsoft's paradigm on what a flight simulator should be. Lastly, many of us are here because of Microsoft; I mean, after all, they created different versions of flight simulators in the first place, that are persevering in different ways today. Therefore, no matter what comes from this latest release of Flight, even if it's a kid's game, I think we should accept it for what it is, a possible different perspective of "flight," and value it from the sense that we have a new addition to the flight sim family.

[peppy197 165]

the part you mention about '*the boring part*' once you get to altitude is quite similar to real life. especially single engine private pilot cross-country without air services and the absence of any detailed navigational involvements/planning (aka VFR) The forward visibility is usually hidden by a huge somewhat empty (unless your uncle owns the oil refinery) cockpit of limited usage as things barely ever change once at steady state, and large wings blocking any nice panoramic view. Also any rush of adrenaline from the risk prone take-off has losts its edge. The noise too can be annoying without headphones, another costly addition. Then someone has to pay for the gas so your constantly calculationg your VISA balance, not to mention the insurance, so maybe you have to fly alone... That why I like the simulator LOL you can switch to wingview, tail view, tire well view... etc...And I could never ever afford a Learjet let alone a private fly-at-will "anywheres.. no passpport required...clear that runway now 'cause here I come courtesy of UT2" B737 all made pretty by PMDG IN Conclusion: The closer you get to reality the closer you get to being bored. On the other hand, the better a simulator simulates, the greater my appreciation for the art and clever engineering making just that possible. That is what I enjoy: how far can I get simulating? With the advent of Ivy Bridge and beyond, I will have to change my perspective to admiring the way mother nature simulates FS*22* allen

[Highmike 68]

I've been having fun with EA's NFS Hot Pursuit which is a fun arcade style driving sim and I've been comparing it with their NFS Shift which is a fairly serious driving sim but one which is also tedious and in the long run boring. It occured to me that EA is quite right in their exploration of the different kinds of sim they could possibly make and I'm thinking that any sim which spans so many years (the NFS franchise is about 17 years old now) has to be prepared to re-invent itself several times to maintain a competitive edge, to take some risks and play with the possibilities. With this in mind I don't think it's fair to criticise Microsoft for experimenting with an alternative simulation paradigm.

[peppy197 165]

I concur Besides, has anyone yet complained about the availability of an "outside" view? This is toying with the simulation too. Since when is that realistic? And the pause button>? Remove that too? Should MS simulate gasoline expenses FOR REAL? Why should MS be expected to simulate all the cute stuff and eliminate anything really real like boredom and fatigue? It is a TOY. So is a speedboat to go nowhere, which is where we used to go in the (real) speedboats we've had our hands on. And yes, you can get bored then too especially without the skies in dull weather etc...

[worldclassleader 0]

the part you mention about '*the boring part*' once you get to altitude is quite similar to real life. especially single engine private pilot cross-country without air services and the absence of any detailed navigational involvements/planning (aka VFR) The forward visibility is usually hidden by a huge somewhat empty (unless your uncle owns the oil refinery) cockpit of limited usage as things barely ever change once at steady state, and large wings blocking any nice panoramic view. Also any rush of adrenaline from the risk prone take-off has losts its edge. The noise too can be annoying without headphones, another costly addition. Then someone has to pay for the gas so your constantly calculationg your VISA balance, not to mention the insurance, so maybe you have to fly alone... That why I like the simulator LOL you can switch to wingview, tail view, tire well view... etc...And I could never ever afford a Learjet let alone a private fly-at-will "anywheres.. no passpport required...clear that runway now 'cause here I come courtesy of UT2" B737 all made pretty by PMDG IN Conclusion: The closer you get to reality the closer you get to being bored. On the other hand, the better a simulator simulates, the greater my appreciation for the art and clever engineering making just that possible. That is what I enjoy: how far can I get simulating? With the advent of Ivy Bridge and beyond, I will have to change my perspective to admiring the way mother nature simulates FS*22* allen

Hello Allen, You touched on some good points in comparing and contrasting the "real deal" versus simulation, and some of the other factors, such as "calculating your VISA balance...insuranace" (lol). I guess it is pretty neat to switch between the various views in the simulator oppose to being limited to one view all the time when you're [really] flying. I think you summed up what all flight-enthusiasts want, and that is "the better a simulator simulates, the greater my appreciation for the art and clever engineering making just that possible." It didn't occur to me until I read your comments, in that, I'm more attracted to the art within the simulator (i.e., REX weather themes, ORBX). The art is what I get a kick out of the most! The more realistic the environment the more I'm "stimulated" by it all. I hope Prepar3d accomplishes that in the coming years; it seems like it will be "THE" platform for flight-sim enthusiasts.

[worldclassleader 0]

I've been having fun with EA's NFS Hot Pursuit which is a fun arcade style driving sim and I've been comparing it with their NFS Shift which is a fairly serious driving sim but one which is also tedious and in the long run boring. It occured to me that EA is quite right in their exploration of the different kinds of sim they could possibly make and I'm thinking that any sim which spans so many years (the NFS franchise is about 17 years old now) has to be prepared to re-invent itself several times to maintain a competitive edge, to take some risks and play with the possibilities. With this in mind I don't think it's fair to criticise Microsoft for experimenting with an alternative simulation paradigm.

HighMike, You said it! "Any sim....has to be prepared to reinvent itself." Absolutely! And I think that is the most challenging aspect; naturally, our society doesn't embrace change; yet without it we wouldn't be able to move forward in many areas of life, whether it's a major enterprise or technological advancements..change is very risky. However, given enough time, people adapt to change. But more importantly, when organizations put their reputation on the line, as Microsoft is doing, it says a lot about the quality of the leadership, organization (i.e., team members, culture, mission, etc), and vision the company has. Therefore, your comments on EA makes a lot of sense to me and is necessary when they are trying, as you stated, "to maintain a competitive edge." Excellent view Mike!

[FloB 34]

Tonight I got new insider (big shot) information about flight: - It´s DX11 based (but compatible with DX10),- no sli / xfire-support- optimized for 4 cpu-cores- runs smooth on latest i5/i7 and 280$ DX11 GPU - basic FMC included- more lively / improved ATC and airport traffic- real overcast and cloud shadows, better rain and snow effects (VR and systems)- more lively flight-models- 4 GA, 3 Jets, 2 Helis (all HD) to start with- wordwide scenery (mainly based on bing maps) - improved online gaming and new co-pilot modus- easy to use-modus- training missions and online lessons- career mode included- marketplace with Microsoft-Addons only (for the first 3 month, open to 3PDs afterwards) - Release on 15th of Dezember 2011.... ....then my alarm clock rang and I couldn´t get back to sleep yet because I was so exited about all that.

[HoratioWondersocks 4]

Tonight I got new insider (big shot) information about flight: - It´s DX11 based (but compatible with DX10),- no sli / xfire-support- optimized for 4 cpu-cores- runs smooth on latest i5/i7 and 280$ DX11 GPU - basic FMC included- more lively / improved ATC and airport traffic- real overcast and cloud shadows, better rain and snow effects (VR and systems)- more lively flight-models- 4 GA, 3 Jets, 2 Helis (all HD) to start with- wordwide scenery (mainly based on bing maps) - improved online gaming and new co-pilot modus- easy to use-modus- training missions and online lessons- career mode included- marketplace with Microsoft-Addons only (for the first 3 month, open to 3PDs afterwards) - Release on 15th of Dezember 2011.... ....then my alarm clock rang and I couldn´t get back to sleep yet because I was so exited about all that.

What!

[GHD 21]

....then my alarm clock rang ...

... and realised that I was dreaming

[andyjohnston.net 617]

Based on the webisodes, it doesn't seem much like a game to me, more like they're still trying to reach the simmer market.

[Fsau 0]

Based on the webisodes, it doesn't seem much like a game to me, more like they're still trying to reach the simmer market.

Agreed. Not only this but it has been said in their own words that they are NOT making an arcade game, it will still deliver to simmers while including elements to attract more to the hobby. Just because they are looking to add to the franchise does not mean they have to detract from what's already there. If we truly go on what little facts we have, not all the rampant pre-release jitters and misinformed paranoia then there is nothing but good things to come from Flight.

[Dan F 6]

Interesting topic.With the elimination of ACES and the long gap between FSX and Flight it is a concern to me as an enthusiast and pilot that the next generation be merely a game. As a sim, FSX has utility and to water down the "boring" steals utility.FSX has become a real world procedures simulator and something that lets me test those "what-if" scenarios that I would never attempt in a real airplane. Also, FSX is a huge part of my "preflight" routine. If I plan a flight of anything over an hour I will run the exact flight VFR and familiarize myself with landmarks (in a limited sense) and relative positions of things. The stick and rudder part of FSX is not as realistic in the GA models (have never flown a real NGX, 767, SR-71, etc. to compare) but serves the purpose of keeping the brain fresh. FSX can also be a bad habit builder in that a real world GA pilot flying VFR usually spends 90% of the time with eyes outside (hopefully seeing and avoiding) but FSX is too pretty to allow us to not hit buttons or look at the pretty gauges. My primary flight instructor's voice still resonates in my mind (eyes outside!) and it took about 2-3 flight hours of dual time to erase some of those habits. All in all, as I now have some very precious cargo onboard when I fly I NEED the boring but understand that I'm not necessarily MS's most profitable client and the aim is to make profit. I for one hope the development team remembers the roots of this software and doesnt forget the minority of real world pilots that are also huge sim ######. The good part is that aviation has finally adopted FSX in the form of Red Bird simulators and P3D, so there is a legitimate simulator market for them to exploit.Dan F