You'll never catch him, he will just zigzag away!G

Hence the roundabout approach vectors

FMC wants me follow a STAR, but the ATC wants me turn away from where the plan is? It won't let me fly a star? RC is a better option but still a bit flakey (at least in my experience). But, you CAN use FSX ATC for SIDS/STARS. Go to SimRoutes.com, generate a route of your choosing, then download it as both an FSX flight plan AND a PMDG flight plan. When downloading the former, you'll have to edit the cruise altitude into it (or do that with the flight planner edit function in FSX once you load it). Then just load the flight plan in FSX ATC and load the PMDG version by invoking it in the FMC. This method works because SimRoutes breaks down the departure and arrival procedures into their basic component waypoints, essentially loading the SID and/or STAR into FSX in a point-to-point fashion. FSX doesn't know it's a SID, but it is, never-the-less. The beauty of this method is: 1) It ensures that your FMC-programmed route is precisiely the same - at least in LNAV - to the flight plan "filed" with ATC. 2) It loads the flight plan into the FMC in a pseudo-ACARS style, so you aren't keying in each waypoint - saves time, effort AND is more realistic 3) You can cut and paste route into SimRoutes from FlightAware. Just paste the route into the route box, and pick the corresponding SID and STAR from the drop-down menus, then delete the SID and STAR names from the pasted text in the route box - essentially leaving only the enroute segment with it's defining beginning and endpoints (which are precisely defined as the SID and STAR transitions). Secondly, when the plane approaches t/d and passes t/d how come the FMC didn't follow the decent plan? But even if it did ATC would tell me I'm below my altitude? It kept maintaining cruise ?? The FMC will not just automatically start descending the plane at TD - you need to preset the MCP altitude and step it down yourself (A warning will flash - RESET MCP ALT, which is the FMC reminding you of this). The other issue is a known idiosyncrasy of the FSX ATC - they tend to be late in descending the large jets. Either request lower (a pain and just a further departure from realism), or go to something like RC. In fact that was the very reason I moved to RC. I'm struggling with calculating decent points and getting to certain levels at certain time The FMC will really do this for you, in conjunction with ATC (when they're not lazy in letting you down). Just remember to slow down as you enter the approach segment (RC will often ask you to slow down if you select restrictions in the setup, while the FSX ATC doesn't care). I could make a guess that you are entering the approach corridor at cruise speed (FAST) and because ATC hasn't directed you to descend, you are HIGH. Fast and high will put you in a situation where you are perpetually trying to hit those target altitudes and missing.

...But, you CAN use FSX ATC for SIDS/STARS. Go to SimRoutes.com, generate a route of your choosing, then download it as both an FSX flight plan AND a PMDG flight plan. When downloading the former, you'll have to edit the cruise altitude into it (or do that with the flight planner edit function in FSX once you load it)....

It wouldnt be quite like real life tho, as in real life SIDs and STARs are assigned by ATC. In europe the STAR is assigned while the plane is in the air, approaching the top of descent. It also happens in some situations in the US, for example if theres excessive traffic on a certain STAR or if weather prevents planes from using a certain STAR. Its not possible to get the built in ATC to assign a STAR dynamically like how its done in real life.

...Either request lower (a pain and just a further departure from realism)...

AFAIK the vast majority of flights asks ATC for descent clearance right before they reach their TOD so I dont think its a step further from realism at all But yeah, the default ATC is not even capable of maintaining separation so what use is it then? One of the best decisions I made in my sim flying "career" was to ditch the default ATC and sign up for VATSIM. Real humans for ATC is much more fun and you'll learn a lot about aviation in the process as well. I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys flying simulators

Hi Johan -

It wouldnt be quite like real life tho, as in real life SIDs and STARs are assigned by ATC.

Loading it the way I suggested will preload the FSX ATC, essentially having ATC "assign" the SID as you mentioned. This is as close to realism as I can manage with FSX.

AFAIK the vast majority of flights asks ATC for descent clearance right before they reach their TOD so I dont think its a step further from realism at all

In my real-life flying this is not the case (at least in the US). ATC directs the transition from enroute to approach, often modifying the STAR to accommodate their own requirements for separation and spacing.

But yeah, the default ATC is not even capable of maintaining separation so what use is it then? One of the best decisions I made in my sim flying "career" was to ditch the default ATC and sign up for VATSIM. Real humans for ATC is much more fun and you'll learn a lot about aviation in the process as well. I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys flying simulators

Agree. Default ATC does a poor job of AI separation, although FS AI Approach Traffic Manager does an acceptable job in reducing conflicts (in my experience). That really is an issue only in congested corridors, however, so I still believe the FSX ATC to be useful. I have yet to try VATSIM - my only hesitation being the "manning" issue. Can I really fly a completely controlled flight of my choosing from ground control at the departure airport to ground control at the arrival base?

Guys, the question posted is clear. Yes, it is possible to complete a flight in the NGX (or any other good acft) with default FS ATC. Sometimes, when testing new addons, we should fly with the default ATC (1) to be released from the VATSIM stress, (2) to use all framerates we need and (3) it is easy and quick to setup. When flying IFR, as soon as the default ATC says you are X nm from the destination and says you should turn N degrees left or right, open the radio screen and choose another approach. They will accept your choice and will ask to call them back when you're on final. So you can fly correctly the STAR and the final approach. In relation to the descend, use this rule: generally, ATC will ask you to descend very close to TD. If they ask you before TD, just use the DESC NOW on FMC. You'll descend at 500-1000 FT/Min until reach your VNAV descend path. Regards

Guys, if you want all those real life ATC stuff check out the following Link, it's been here before already.I reviewed many of the features on that ATC product.read it and you will all be answered on your questions and yes ATC (VoxATC) will assign a SID/STARs as in real life! , check it out , the Link. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/339628-pfe-or-rc4/

He was working on the UK's NHS project until recently.

National Health System you mean ? Of course you are joking, correct ? In case you weren't joking, would you be please so kind to provide me also a surname of the subject ? Thanks in advance