We need a more professional way of saying what we do...

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Give it up !   To the rest of the world, including my family who knows what I do, we are just a bunch of "pretend pilots" & gamers.  Sadly its the truth and honestly I could care less what they think, its a hobby I enjoy and I will continue on enjoying it.Mark.

I agree!But in my case, NOBODY that lives... hmm... say 120 miles from my house likes flight simulation at all..... I'm the only one in the entire city of ****, Texas that would spend 3 hours on a virtual flying network going from KIAH to KMIA...Like Mark said, I really don't care what others think. I will continue to enjoy and have fun in my hobby.As a matter of fact, in my Facebook picture I have a picture of the Cessna 172 that I train in, and somebody (at my school) asked me if I do barrel rolls in it.... I know, right? Another example was when I was told by someone that they were going to Jamaica (Kingston). I asked them, (KINDLY) what plane were they going to go on (because as you know most airliners put the plane type on their website while you're booking) and they said "I don't care! As long as it gets me there!"I just thought of something else. Most of them (if they're not football guys) think Call of Duty Black Ops is the best thing ever, Battlefield sucks, this is the only game I'll ever play and flight simulation is stupid.Although most people think "football" is a hobby, I say (and will continue to say) otherwise.

[tutmeister 710]

To be honest, no one I know ever makes fun of me about flight simulation as a hobby. This may be because I am a qualified pilot and they think that flight simulation is therefore an acceptable hobby to do some frugal training in these poor economic times, but it's also probably the ability to state it confidently that it is something I enjoy doing. I've done it for a lot longer than I've been a qualified pilot and my military flight school was a breeze because of my years of virtual piloting (not ground school, just the actual hands-on part). Ironically, the only person I do now remember that has made fun of me was my flight school wingman. He just couldn't understand why after a hard day's training I'd come and fly the next sortie online instead of heading to the mess to wind down! hehe, only our type understand that, I'm sure! :D

[Cessnaflyer 56]

My first contact with FS was back with an Apple II GS (the only good Apple product). My dad used it as a procedure tool for when he was getting his license and I would fly around for fun. I started to do the same a few years later when I was training for my license. The novelty of it has quickly worn off and now I use it if I haven't flown at work for a few weeks to keep some procedures fresh. I don't know how some of you do real time flights hours at a time.

[BillCusick 75]

<< 'Normal' people don't give a toss! >>That's not fair, Ron. I consider myself 'Normal'. Ha ! (Looking over my shoulder nervously)tutmeister - <<'This may be because I am a qualified pilot'>>I know - let's just call ourselves 'qualified pilots'. Well, we are, aren't we ?I know I am. After all, I fly a 737NG in FSX. (I consider myself a qualified 737NGX pilot) so there ! (jumping up and down, stamping my feet)I think our 'respect' has been reduced 'cos many call this a 'game'. I think that those who call flightsim a game should be banned from Avsim !RegardsBill

[mgh 89]

I should be banned then because I call it a game.We sit in front of our computers in the comfort of our own homes and respond to them using. a mouse, keyboard, stick/wheel,/pedals. controllers etc in exactly the same as any other game player.FS may simulate aircraft and auirfields, but racing car games simulate cars and tracks: war games simulate weapons and battlelfield scenarios.Why do some posters here have so little confidence in themselve that they can't want to admit what they do for amusement?

[Raindance 25]

Game or sim? It's what you make of it surely? If you're seriously practising piloting procedures & protocol then it's a sim. If you're flying around for the sheer enjoyment of it then you're having fun, and that falls broadly into gaming I'd say.It can also be an aesthetic experience, which is why texture/cloud/sky improvers and better topography add-ons are so popular. If you have one of the Mega-airports and decent WOAI for it, it's sometimes nice just to sit and watch the AI coming and going as the sun goes down in the evening.Speaking of aesthetics, I've just ordered this (AirCraft, The Jet as Art)>>http://www.jeffreymi...rCraftBook.html

[briansommers 74]

Game or sim? It's what you make of it surely? If you're seriously practising piloting procedures & protocol then it's a sim. If you're flying around for the sheer enjoyment of it then you're having fun, and that falls broadly into gaming I'd say.

mmm. not sure If I can agree to that one, if I'm not a pilot and not taking lesson, but If I "fly" my flightsim with correct piloting procedures and protocol then wouldn't I also be using it as a sim? To me, if I'm flying fs9/x/xplane/whatever and not flying by current rules/procedures, etc, etc, I would consider that to be "gaming" - but non-the-less, the cool thing is that FSX is a sandbox and we can play in it however we like.now, I'll give my def of sim and game - it is a lot broader and that is a game, is a real world task which then result in a score to determine winner and looser. A Sim is just simply a model of a real world task. So based on that and aside really on how we play it, I would say fsx/fs9 is a sim.. YOu could then argue well how WELL does it model the real world task in which it sets out to model and we tend to say, because something that doesn't model the real world task well we then tend to call that a game. I just say its a bad simulation but still a sim.now, back on topic.. it is really interesting to read these responses and I think part of my problem is my confidence level! Maybe I embarrassed to admit that I"m a virtual pilot or that I do civilian computer flight simulation ( and yes, I have to say civilian, because I have to many people respond back and say, ohh you blow stuff up and shoot stuff?) is because I say it kind of quietly. I think for my next experiment, next time I'm hanging out and the conversation goes to hobbies I should say mine in real confidence and boldly and see if the response would be different. I think it might.. ...mmmm

[GlobalGentleman 1]

Brian, couldn't agree more fully with your articulation above of the sim definition/experience....I've used different terms in the past to describe it to different people, and it's equally interesting watching the variety of reaction. Some get it, some don't. Consider your audience beforehand as well, when you start explaining it to them. For those who understand time spent with computer based software 'hobbies' as generally classified into 'games,' you're probably not going to make much headway with them, regardless of how confidently any of us phrase it. I generally start out by referring to it as virtual aviation training, or a variation thereof. I mean, aviation becomes a way of life, rather than just a game (or even sim), if you're passionate about it....who else do you see pausing to get in their car because they hear a prop overhead and want to look up and identify whether it's a c172, sr22, etc? things like this speak way beyond just the sitting in front of the computer portion of it, as far as I'm concerned at least.....And if all else fails in trying to get someone to take your passion seriously, start talking to them about atc approach vectoring, or the need to monitor EGT during engine start, or how to interpret REL's while the aircraft is taxiing during their next vacation or business flight.In my experience, that usually jolts them out of poking any fun at my 'way of life' !! Grrrrrrrr!!! ;)

[Chuck_B 2]

Brian, couldn't agree more fully with your articulation above of the sim definition/experience....I generally start out by referring to it as virtual aviation training, or a variation thereof.

"Virtual Aviation" and "Virtual Aviation". I like those even better. Outstanding! That will make people sit up straight in front of their giblets this thanksgiving ... !!!

[GlobalGentleman 1]

Haha!! Thanks Chuck!! I think you were heading towards 'Virtual Aviator' there? a great variation.Yeah, it might even pause them going for that 2nd helping of mash potatoes if we're lucky ;)

[Superpilotv2 2]

mmm. not sure If I can agree to that one, if I'm not a pilot and not taking lesson, but If I "fly" my flightsim with correct piloting procedures and protocol then wouldn't I also be using it as a sim? To me, if I'm flying fs9/x/xplane/whatever and not flying by current rules/procedures, etc, etc, I would consider that to be "gaming" - but non-the-less, the cool thing is that FSX is a sandbox and we can play in it however we like.

So you say if I just take the C337 for a ride above PNW and don´t do the precedures to the point, I´m gaming at all?

[Raindance 25]

"..If I "fly" my flightsim with correct piloting procedures and protocol then wouldn't I also be using it as a sim?"That's basically what I meant; sorry if there was confusion. I'm not a real pilot but often fly the sim in 'serious' mode, so I guess we agree.EDIT: ..and then there's always this, for really serious simming:http://www.excalibur...eetcleaning.htm"Brush off the dirt and make a clean sweep as you embark on a career to become an accomplished street cleaner. Use your highly detailed sweeping machines to roam the city in search of muck. As your experience grows so will the tasks you have to deal with! Get swept up into fighting the flotsam and jetsam of city life with Street Cleaning Simulator! "Imagine how you'd explain that hobby to your friends.

[HUSSAR 272]

Street sweeper huh? Never would have thought in a million years that I would see something like that, I think its awesome.Growing up I had always been interested in flight and aircraft and as a young boy had never even considered that one day I would be enjoying aircraft to the extreme that I do in my very own home. I used to build models and read books and I was proud of the fact that I could identify an aircraft quicker than the adults as they flew overhead.I work for a very large industrial company and back when I was training I learned rather quickly how to operate the plant in a control-room setting and several of my co-workers commented on how calm I remained when things went sideways. One day during a rather long and boring 12 hour shift we began to discuss the operation and how we felt about operating it. One of my co-workers mentioned an incident that had occurred recently and that he was impressed not only with my knowledge but how I handled the incident while the communications system was rather busy and no-one could get a word in without stepping on someone else.My reply "the reason I stay calm is because I fly a 747 on my days off!" Well you should have seen everyone's expression, their jaws dropped and one fellow said "yeah right." Not missing a beat I began to go through my flight sim story and ran through the start up procedure complete with switch turns, flicks, pulls, pushes etc... I had them laughing and at the end I said, "Seriously? I fly a sim" and I have never looked back.Honestly, I do not feel like a nerd and I am rather proud of what I do in my spare time, I really wouldn't want it any other way.Thanks for starting this post Brian.

[Chuck_B 2]

Really, Brian. This has been a great thread! No matter how secure I think I am, I'm still just a wee-bit uncomfortable when answering the question, and it continues if ever asked to expound on my answer to any length. That won't happen any longer . . . Thanks, again! PS: And I did mean to write "Virtual Aviator" in my previous post.

[briansommers 74]

So you say if I just take the C337 for a ride above PNW and don´t do the precedures to the point, I´m gaming at all?

That is a tough one, but after much thought, I would have to say no and redefine my statement above.let me put the givens out there for reference again:1. game = a real world task in which one receives a score at the completion of said task2. simulation = a model of a real world task and/or event.how we interact with the model determines what we benefit from the model it doesn't effect whether it models or not, in this case, it still modelsso to answer your question, I stand corrected and say no.