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What distance do you turn your APP on ?

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This may be my problem..I'll check it when I get home.
Which is this key/functions ? Maybe I already use it and I do not recall but better to check.Thx
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1) I will try to post one, do I have to use FRAPS for that ?
No, just press the "v" button (without the quotations of cause). That's the standart button for a screenshot in FS. After that you'll find your screenshot in the /My Pictures/ Flightsimulator X folder (Not sure about the english name of this folder as I only have the german version of it.

Greetings from the 737 flightdeck!

At whatever distance I'm cleared for the approach. If it's really far out, I might wait a bit. Eg.>30nm.

Matt Cee

Have you manually set the correct course on the glareshield panel?

Jeff Blyth

MD11 J41 747 NGX . . awaiting 777 !!!

At whatever distance I'm cleared for the approach. If it's really far out, I might wait a bit. Eg.>30nm.
That seems to be a situation where it's easier, I did a test and worked fine.The tricky situation is when you perform a 90 degrees turn to enter directly into the glide just after the turn. There, you have few seconds to capture the glide and if the APP button doesn't come green when pushing it for whatever reason I still ignore, well, after 3-4 seconds you have finished your chances to catch the glide and if you fail you know that you have to dance for a while and usually I quit because I can't stay calm.

In real life...both loc and g/s have published protected ranges. A general one is the loc is protected out to 25 dme and the g/s only 10 miles...many larger airports, depending on the protections of the airspace that surrounds them, have slightly larger protected ranges for the g/s. So you could find that you are vectored to establish on the localised at say 20miles, but would not be cleared for the approach, you wouldn't arm the app only loc...you would be given descent to keep you both inside controlled airspace and also to ensure you will be either beneath or in line with the g/s once inside the protected range of the g/s you would then be cleared for the ILS. Or as in the uk specifically to descend on the g/s. at this point you would engage the app button.So at a airfield with zero elevation, on a 3degree glide path, a general rule of thumb is to be 3000ft at 10miles. In reality you'd be given descent to a level beneath this, to help capture from below. It also helps complete CDA, as it gives pilot chance to manage speed easier while still descending and also not find you drifting above in the time it takes you to be given the instruction and press the button. So I'm not sure in fsx but you may find the published range of the ils is smaller than the point you are trying to activate app. If you have no indication on the PDF then this may be the case.Also note about the comment referring to as soon as established on g/s gear down, flaps 15. This is actually becoming very much an old sop now, and only really used if high or fast. Normally now it's flaps 10 speed 170... With gear not down till around 4 to 5 miles, where vref will be selected allowing speed to drift off to be stable at 1000ft. Purely because it saves an awful lot of fuel!However you may find that due to the fact the 738 in fsx seems to have slightly higher idles or is it more slippery than real world(it's slippery in real world) you may find that you do need gear down flaps 15 earlier to prevent speed increasing on the approach.

Regards

 

James Carr

So you could find that you are vectored to establish on the localised at say 20miles, but would not be cleared for the approach, you wouldn't arm the app only loc...you would be given descent to keep you both inside controlled airspace and also to ensure you will be either beneath or in line with the g/s once inside the protected range of the g/s you would then be cleared for the ILS. Or as in the uk specifically to descend on the g/s. at this point you would engage the app button.
That's sounds more logic to me, the fact to arm the APP in a later stage than the LOC and not in advance or together to avoid to catch false glides.I doubt anyway FSX take into considerations the protected ranges but I wonder why there is no sound warning when a plane hits the glide path. Doing that I would be certain when to activate the APP precisely without watching the panel hoping for a green good news ( glide ) that usually happens rarely, at least when turning 90 degrees directly into a glide.Am I wrong ?We have to take into consideration that within FSX there is no ATC help at all while in the reality the tower helps you if you are slightly higher or lower than the optimal glide interception path.-
That's sounds more logic to me, the fact to arm the APP in a later stage than the LOC and not in advance or together to avoid to catch false glides.I doubt anyway FSX take into considerations the protected ranges but I wonder why there is no sound warning when a plane hits the glide path. Doing that I would be certain when to activate the APP precisely without watching the panel hoping for a green good news ( glide ) that usually happens rarely, at least when turning 90 degrees directly into a glide.Am I wrong ?
Well, there's no false glideslope reception in FSX, as radio wave bounce is not simulated. As for intercepting the loc at 90 degrees, I have never been instructed to intercept the LOC at 90 degrees online (sorry, im not a real world pilot, my experiences are all based on the simulated world), I think the biggest angle i have been instructed to intercept at was 45 degrees (which in itself is quite a lot). I imagine its a clusterf**k to intercept at 90 degrees.

Johan Pettersen

Doubt there a protected range as such...but there will be a range that it can be picked up from...otherwise you'd pick multiple ones up all the time.If doing a turn onto localiser all the way round as it were this is where you need to be descending to a level beneath the glide, so as you become established on the localiser you are beneath it., here you would probably now use vs mode and wind descent rate to a smaller amount which helps you bring speed back, you'd have armed the app at this point, and then due to you lower descent rate you would find the glide coming down, at which point you'd then continue to follow that.In essence a closing heading is normally around 30 degrees, less sometimes due to winds. However a controller will sometimes give a one turn on heading when being slick and the wind is going to help. The idea being that you'll be turning with the localiser as it comes in rather than stopping on a heading then returning.

Regards

 

James Carr

For example I often face a situation similar to the picture where it you may have to enter the glide turning 90 degrees just before intercepting the glide even if the chart is not the exact example I mean. That is a clear situation where you have few seconds to catch the glide and the APP has to be pushed in these few seconds only when maybe you are busy watching traffic , flaps, speed, etc ?ils34.jpgUploaded with ImageShack.us

This is a procedural approach...rather than what you would actually be vectored for...basically be flown in a non radar environment(mainly) either way you'd arm approach, but ensure you at the platform altitude of 6000ft before the turn.

Regards

 

James Carr

Well, there's no false glideslope reception in FSX, as radio wave bounce is not simulated. As for intercepting the loc at 90 degrees, I have never been instructed to intercept the LOC at 90 degrees online (sorry, im not a real world pilot, my experiences are all based on the simulated world), I think the biggest angle i have been instructed to intercept at was 45 degrees (which in itself is quite a lot). I imagine its a clusterf**k to intercept at 90 degrees.
While there are a number of things in aviation that can result in a clusterfork (I'll assume that's what you meant tongue.png ), a 90 degree intercept is unlikely to be one of them. In practice (RW and simulated) intercepts are normally about 30 degrees, but can be up to 45 degrees as stated above.On the other hand, look at any number of RNAV STARs/transitions onto approach (LOWW are the ones that spring to mind right now though) and you'll see a series of RNAV points that form a downwind, base and final leg. The turn onto base and then final is normally a 90 degree turn in each instance, so the aircraft is capable of handling these sorts of manoevures provided the speed is reasonablly low (i.e. low enough that the radius of the turn at that speed isn't greater than the radius of the path drawn between the points).Did that make sense? I read it back to myself and it sounds crazy...Anyway, go out and try a 90 degree LOC intercept, then try a 120 degree one. Make sure you keep your airspeed down to a sensible intercept speed, but I think you'll be surprised how well the NGX copes.

Mark Adeane - NZWN
Boeing777_Banner_BetaTeam.jpg

Correct but the rnav approach in essence is giving you a turn on, it's not quite the case of setting a heading 090 to the final approach heading and arming loc and expecting the plane to turn on and intercept, yes it's not bad at doing it, but I think there some confusion previously on what meant by a 90 degree turn on as opposed to a 90 degree intercept.

Regards

 

James Carr

For the depicted approach, you could simply use LNAV/VNAV until you got it on final and then arm the approach. You should have plenty of time from intercept to MILNI to hit the APP button. Nice and smooth.I think in the US, pilots/instructors/controllers are not so concerned about the service volume of the LOC/GS. Finals at many busy airports can be over 20nm much of the time, and I've not seen one person wait to arm the APP if they're cleared for it and on an intercept heading.

Matt Cee

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